Canadian Railroading in the 1950's

[wacampbell]

I am looking for some help from the railroad history exports out there. I have been thinking about different project ideas and areas to focus to my modelling efforts. Truthfully I am not a hard core rail enthusiast and don't know the inside outs of the different locos that everyone talks about. But I am interested in Canadian railroading of the 50's and am trying to learn what it looked like. What stands out as being uniquely different in Canada during that time. Were there certain railcars, or locomotives etc that weren't seen in the US? Like in the world of automobiles ( which I do know a little more about ), we had the Pontiac Strato-Chief, Laurentian and Parisienne instead of the U.S. Catalina, Star-Chief and Bonneville. How were the railroads different? ( other than we called them railways and the thing on the back of the train is called a van! )

All discussion welcome...

[BNSFdude]

M420s, GMD-1s, RS18/RS18u are all staples of Canadian railroading we haven't seen in TS.

I still have my M420 that I've been chunking away at of late, but I need to make a research trip to the MN Commercial.

Edit: whoops, you said 50s.

[Chacal]

Look up Montreal Locomotive Works (MLW) and General Motors Diesel (GMD), the Canadian subsidiaries of Alco and EMD.

[DrewG]

Canada always pretty closely mimicked the US because of how much we interchanged. We however did hold onto steam engines longer than the US (which is why a lot of Canadian steam engines have been preserved in the States). So there was a lot of diesel/steam mixed trains in the transition era, you can find a lot of great videos of it out there. As the others said we did have Canadian manufacturers steam and diesel wise, Canadian Locomotive Company, Montreal Locomotive Works, General Motors Diesel being the chief ones.

What are you looking into? If you don't mind my asking. I've got some items in my collection from then that might help you.

[wacampbell]

> MLW, GMC, CLC

Were the loco's they made any different from those made by their parent companies?

> M420s, GMD-1s, RS18/RS18u

Were these types more prevalent in Canada?

I am thinking of things like all-weather enclosed cabs in steam loco's. When I see them it feels very 'Canadian'.
Or the CP developed Fowler boxcars of an earlier era - again they are seen elsewhere but are sort of iconic in Canada.

> What are you looking into? If you don't mind my asking. I've got some items in my collection from then that might help you.

Just learning.

[BNSFdude]

> M420s, GMD-1s, RS18/RS18u

Were these types more prevalent in Canada?

One could call these the staples of Canadian railroading, really. They're all Canadian Specific models only offered up there. The GMD-1 is a CN branch line locomotive that was a prominent model seen across all of Canada on CN, especially the prairie Providences where the track work wasn't necessary the best. There were two variations, the A-1-A trucked ones, and the B-B's on Flexicoils. Rapido has a nice blurb all about them.
https://rapidotrains.com/gmd-1-master-class/

The M420 was also popular due to the safety cabs and can be found today scattered all across North America.

GMDD Also had a foot in the GP market, which, naturally could be found here in the US as well, but over time, the GP9s found different rebuild variations, one of the most recognizable would be CN's GP9rm, that can be seen as stand alone locomotives, or paired with slugs.

[DrewG]

If your thinking the all weather cabs, the CNR Confederation Class locomotives are my favourite. They were the backbone of the Canadian National fleet, and boy do they ever look good.

Here is 6167, which currently sits near the station in the city I live near.

and 6218, sadly this one is in real bad condition in Fort Erie.


CPR wise, the D10 was a very common branchline locomotive, and I believe CPR had over 500 of them, all from various manufacturers. http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/D10.htm Tons of D10 photos in here.

[JOHNtheREDNECK]

Lets not forget this beast that sadly is no longer in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOpS1RLTB0I

[wacampbell]

> GMD-1

These certainly stand out with a unique look. There weren't many of them built, but I remember seeing them when I lived as a kid in Manitoba.

> RS18/RS18u

Also a nicely different look with the big rounded cab roofs and the low nose. I like it.

> GP9rm / GP9u

Are there many spotting differences between these and the stock US versions?

> CNR Confederation Class 4-8-4

A definite workhorse. I think we have some 4-8-4's available. Has anyone tried to adapt one of them to represent the CNR loco? I guess the enclosed cab would be the challenge.

> CPR D10 4-6-0

I love the small branchline locos. But with just curtains for weather protection - they must have froze their backsides while their frontside cooked. Do we have any good representations of the 4-6-0 in Railworks? I wonder if there would be many around in the 50's.

> CNR 3254

Yah, those S class 2-8-2's are serious locos. A very chunky look - all weather cabs - and an unusal wheel arrangements - what's not to like. They stayed in service right up to the end of steam so it wouldn't be odd seeing them at work in the 50's. Do we having anything like this in Railworks yet?

Are there any forums or web sites that focus on good discussion of Canadian RR'ing in this era?
How about drawing sources and reference info. I can google around, but again are there some key books or references?

Thanks all for the discussion.

[BoostedFridge]

While they were not mechanically different from their American counterparts, the Fairbanks Morse/CLC 'C-Liners' lasted much longer in Canadian service, particularly with the CPR in the Kettle Valley/Kootenay regions. To me, these and the FM/CLC Trainmasters are what I think of when I think about Canadian diesels in the 50's.

If you haven't already, I suggest reading 'The Kettle Valley and its Railways' by Hal Riegger. It contains lots of photographs of these units in action.

[BoostedFridge]

> GMD-1

These certainly stand out with a unique look. There weren't many of them built, but I remember seeing them when I lived as a kid in Manitoba.

These units found their way down into Vancouver for some of their last years. There was a few sets that switched the CN yard at Terminal Ave throughout the 90's.

> RS18/RS18u

Also a nicely different look with the big rounded cab roofs and the low nose. I like it.

These are mechanically very similar to the Alco RS-11, which we have in Train Simulator c/o Virtual Railroads. The US versions have some exterior spotting differences.


> GP9rm / GP9u

Are there many spotting differences between these and the stock US versions?

Since most railroads rebuilt their own GP9's into the 'chop nose' versions, there are a lot of variations between them from RR to RR. Both CN & CP have flat noses on their rebuilds, with slightly different cab window, bell, & lighting configurations between them. Many US railroads had sloped noses on their GP9 rebuilds, more similar to the GP20 factory nose.


Are there any forums or web sites that focus on good discussion of Canadian RR'ing in this era?

Trainorders.com is a pay access site, but has a vast archive of discussions and media about historical railroading. There is a fairly large percentage of former railroaders as members, so it often offers a insiders perspective on many topics. While it is largely US focused, there is a decent amount of Canadian information and discussion.

[wacampbell]

> Fairbanks Morse/CLC 'C-Liners'

OK - those I like a lot. Very cool look. And they would work perfectly on my fictional Columbia Valley Pacific, which is supposed to be a Kettle Valleyesque sort of line. Nice! Not to be repetitive - do we have these in Railworks?

I think my loco wish list is growing.

[DrewG]

I have a book from the CNR Montreal maintenance department. I'll take a look through it later and see what's in it, but it is diagrams of CNR steam locomotives in their class's A through H. So there is a lot of Locomotives.

[thecanadianrail]

The steam to diesel era lasted into the early 60's in Canada with I think the last regular service steam train ran in 64? Canadian steam engines were vastly different than the US locos in exterior detail parts for a lot of them along with both CN and CP really dipping into the streamlined engines at the end points. F-units were fairly common too around that time along with the gmd-1's in the west. Really there is too much to go into detail about just in a simple reply on here.

[DrewG]

Here is some photos of the book I was referring too. May come in handy if anyone chooses to model one of these locos. These are just a few of what's in here.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EmJiHD2BRI5jqhIM2