Third party developers

[JerryC]

The end user will praise you for detail, and chew you a new one over doing to much with textures.

There'll be little praise if FPS are below expectations .

You need to look balance in the game, some things for sure need geometry, but what can be done with normals and good textures is what counts.

There will be little sympathy for folks who want to "play-without-pay" and expect these models to run high-FPS on low end systems. I was once of this thought process, but when I started thinking about the cost difference of building a high-end computer for gaming ($1500-2000 once every five years), versus how much it costs to have a flesh-and-blood train layout in my house ($500 per month, FOREVER!), I was happy to put in the cash to be able to to PC game smoothly in style!

Edwin, I think that DTG and all developers should push things as far as they can, throw as much detail and operations as the game engine will allow (if the information can be obtained) into each rolling stock model and route. I say rolling stock model, not scenery asset, because we need to concentrate on trains, lest we get bogged down in the trackside stuff and never complete a route!

[g_nash]

Edwin, I think that DTG and all developers should push things as far as they can, throw as much detail and operations as the game engine will allow (if the information can be obtained) into each rolling stock model and route. I say rolling stock model, not scenery asset, because we need to concentrate on trains, lest we get bogged down in the trackside stuff and never complete a route!

Already available here >> https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/IN ... index.html

and DTG are bound by the same limitations that you will be, i.e. there's finite amount of detail to models and physics calculations for same that you can add before before the FPS go to zero.

This ain't the the real world >> Users need to rethink some of their expectations.

[JerryC]

there's finite amount of detail to models and physics calculations for same that you can add before before the FPS go to zero.

I, for one, want to push it until I find out what that limit is!

And I will.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

This ain't the the real world >> Users need to rethink some of their expectations.

True! Perhaps we expected too much of the UE4 engine given all the pre-release hype?

As I see it, at the present on my computers, TSW performs just like TSX, albeit with much prettier picture.
So perhaps a few fps can be squeezed from the game here or there, but I hardly expect a doubling in performance over the next six months or so.

The next moment of truth will be a VR release, for that puts completely different requirements on your hardware for the required immersive experience.

[dick8299]

Maybe this has been discussed before and I missed it, in which case I apologize for the post.

When I open my TS2017 folder, there is a well organized folder tree with all the sim information available in it.

When I open my TSW folder, there are two folders that don't tell me anything. Where are the assets, etc stored?

[buzz456]

Maybe this has been discussed before and I missed it, in which case I apologize for the post.

When I open my TS2017 folder, there is a well organized folder tree with all the sim information available in it.

When I open my TSW folder, there are two folders that don't tell me anything. Where are the assets, etc stored?

No need to apologize for a very legitimate question. The answer right now is you can't get to them without some major unreal gyrations. Those of us that are not into the arcane bowels of this program will just have to wait and see if DTG comes up with anything or if this thing remains a un-editabal critter.

[artimrj]

Dick, the file not files, are in here steamapps\common\Train Sim World\WindowsNoEditor\TS2Prototype\Content\Paks. There is 1 8.8 gig file with everything in it. They talk about getting in to it in the UE4 forum. I have not even attempted anything with it and doubt I will until we get tools like Buzz says.

[BNSFdude]

I do hope VRC and RRMods bring their offerings to TSW to compete with DTG's.

But what general level of features do we want/need/expect?

Not every instrument/device in the cabs is working at the moment or its workings aren't in the manual.

We have now:
proper 26L automatic train brake with realistic handle positions;
independent brake that bails off;
nice instrument lights;
individual headlight and ditchlight controls, separate switches for step lights, platform lights, numberboard lights, cab lights, both fore and aft;
individual windshield wiper controls with working yank handles (not on the GP38-2 though);
individual opening doors and windows with changing sound occlusion;
distance counters (?);
Doesn't work on SD40/GP38-2
cab radios (?);
Non optional mind you. I hate in cab radio sounds...
head end EOTD box (?);
with completely incorrect values for accelerometer and non-functional display to know if ITS is moving, stopped, HVM is on or off... etc
brake pipe pressure valve and cut-out valve;
handle off position (but no removal of reverser handle) on trailing units;
lots of fuses and circuit breakers;
cab heater/a.c. control (with blower sounds?);
Is there a working wheelslip light?

Could be improved:
Intuitive IFD with more useful screens? accel/decel on the speedo, TE indicator, some engine parameters, train parameters like length and weight, LD/MTY, number of axles, etc;
The features listed are a Run 8 Gimmick. The real IFDs do not have that information. The IFD as it stands doesn't represent the real thing well either at all. It's like they didn't look at the manuals which are available online for free... lol
Working LCD display on modern integrated brake valve?

We have on the outside:
Opening doors and manual start up procedure on dead and cold SD40's (do we want this on every model?);
Working hand brake wheel or ratchet handle;
Yeah with improper animation. They modeled the electric ones and didn't even get the audio right
Working drop steps (we need safety chains that connect between the units?);
Working brake and m.u. hoses and cable (perhaps some manual procedure of lashing up a m.u. consist, including drop steps and safety chains?);
Proper length of these hoses, the current ones are way too short to look correct!

Unknown feature:
What about the mirrors? Folding them out, reflecting actual weather and getting wet in rain? Perhaps make the upper 3/4 part transparent glass like a wind deflector and have a smaller mirror set in the bottom near the armrest?
Not all units have the IMO stupid deflector/mirror. Those things are frankly useless.
Brake cylinder/brake shoes that move when actuated?
Hand brake chains that tighten when applied?
Folding shades, opening some more hatches and doors for decorative screenshot purposes?

Of course locomotives from different developers need to work together as intended, so a uniform consist messaging protocol is mandatory.

[SamYeager270]

The features listed are a Run 8 Gimmick. The real IFDs do not have that information. The IFD as it stands doesn't represent the real thing well either at all. It's like they didn't look at the manuals which are available online for free... lol

Perhaps you should let DTG know how to access those manuals. I believe I read something from DTG where they said they had to buy some manuals off eBay. Maybe they got the wrong/out of date manuals.

[SandpatchConductor]

At CSX they use Trip Optimizer on the GE engines. TO has all of that information and can be looked, it also has a map and speed listed similar to the HUD from TS20XX.

[BNSFdude]

The features listed are a Run 8 Gimmick. The real IFDs do not have that information. The IFD as it stands doesn't represent the real thing well either at all. It's like they didn't look at the manuals which are available online for free... lol

Perhaps you should let DTG know how to access those manuals. I believe I read something from DTG where they said they had to buy some manuals off eBay. Maybe they got the wrong/out of date manuals.

No. I'm done doing things and expending my knowledge for free to them.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I forgot one feature of rebuild CSX GP38 and SD40 locomotives: the orange rotary beacon and warning siren that VRC have implemented.



Here is a 2015 photo with the control stand of a 1970 built SD40-2: Notice the separate traction/dynamic brake controller, but most importantly the reverser handle removed on a trailing unit.
I assume the brake handle could also be removed in the "handle off" position.
The big round knob is some kind of slow speed control?

[mrennie]

As i say to our artists... its easy to add more polys. the trick is to make it look like it has that many polys but use a fraction of it. :)
With UE4 i try and get the guys to model assets so users dont see polygons, they see structure and matetials. which is a mindset and marriage between polys and textures. more polys is one solution but more polys does not equal good.

Do more with less better.

that being said i love how our hobby pushes to get the best out of people.
cheers
d

Sorry to have to disagree yet again. For example, I wish you'd taken the opportunity to use more polys on the diesel horns to make them look round when viewed close up. That's when more polys = much, much better, especially when TSW is meant to be more advanced and more detailed than TS1. Bump maps and clever texturing (which I also use where appropriate) can only do so much. It is absolutely no substitute for proper 3D modelling of parts that you intend to be viewed from close up, as if the player were standing close to the locomotive (which seems to be the intention now in TSW). That's why the FEF-3 in TS is so detailed - I want people to spend time just looking at it from very close, finding all the details and seeing them in true 3D, so that they get a better understanding of how such a loco is built (in real life) and more sense of "being there". I also use LODs to make the smaller parts vanish at a distance where the viewer wouldn't be able to distinguish them from the background anyway, or so that a flat image of the same parts is seen instead.

I see that you have made the dials, or gauges, in the cabs much rounder than you used to do them, which is definitely an improvement.

[mrennie]

Sorry, I prefer the "real" part over the synthetic stuff made of shadows and bump maps. The real trick is using only the polygons that you need to make the part realistic, smoothing it correctly, and LODing the model so that you see the parts when you need to, and having that same part stealthily disappear when you don't. And some things you just can't texture in. A shadow map might be fine for a rivet, but texture in a nut and a washer and it looks cheap. The end user will praise you for detail, and chew you a new one over doing to much with textures.

I agree completely.

[SandpatchConductor]

I forgot one feature of rebuild CSX GP38 and SD40 locomotives: the orange rotary beacon and warning siren that VRC have implemented.

Here is a 2015 photo with the control stand of a 1970 built SD40-2: Notice the separate traction/dynamic brake controller, but most importantly the reverser handle removed on a trailing unit.
I assume the brake handle could also be removed in the "handle off" position.
The big round knob is some kind of slow speed control?

The brake handle does not come off in the handle off position.
The big round knob should be hump speed control, i can't tell in that picture for sure though.