RSC 2-8-0 CONSOLIDATION

[mrennie]

Not that we are not grateful - but go to bed

Thanks for the update...

I've turned into a night owl



(I'm off to bed now)

[jalsina]

That smoke, not bad at all! Wow!

Thanks Jorge

Of course, the FEF-3 doesn't want to be left out ...

2015-10-01_00008.jpg

Great, great
It would seem that you have changed the smoke/steam textures?

But I´m bringing something new.
As you may remember I only acquired the Connie last week. I have ran it twice. The last one in the Bergen route (excelent BTW ) a few minutes ago. I had installed the update earlier today.
I went into QD HUD striping 12 boxcars in Bergen. I noted two things:
1- The independent brake was already set by default, along with the air brakes. I realized about that when I see the loco stopping the valve gear and say myself, and now what I have broken? and a lot of orange sparks appearing on the rails (great detail btw ).
2- When starting the run I open the cocks and run for some distance and then I try to close them. Nothing! They will not close with a C keystroke. I had to use the cab handle to close them.

I tried another run, another place, another consist. It took me several presses of C to fully open cocks (that probably is designed) but as before I could not close them except with the handle.

I wonder if those two aspects of the updated Connie are just on purpose or may be something unwanted.

[trev123]

I have had the Connie from almost when it first came out. Not being able to close the cylinder cocks has always been there. No issue for me, I just hop into the cab and shut them.

[mrennie]

'C' opens the cylinder cocks, 'Shift C' closes them.

[bpetit]

Mmm can smell that coal smoke from here.

[mrennie]

It would seem that you have changed the smoke/steam textures?

Much more than that. I changed the entire emitter blueprint and coordinated it with the advanced physics scripting. That's why you wouldn't get the same results if you just took the new emitter and put it into another loco that doesn't have my scripting.

1- The independent brake was already set by default, along with the air brakes. I realized about that when I see the loco stopping the valve gear and say myself, and now what I have broken? and a lot of orange sparks appearing on the rails (great detail btw ).

What happens is that if you accelerate the loco from a standstill, with enough cylinder pressure to overcome the force of the engine brakes, but then reduce that pressure (closing the throttle and/or reducing the cut-off) with the engine brakes still on, they eventually stop the driving wheels, but because the locomotive is still moving forward with some momentum, it can't stop immediately and instead slides along the rails (and hence the sparks).

I think instead of setting both brakes (engine and train) at the start, I'll leave the engine brake handle in Running. The train brake will still set both brakes, but when you release the brakes with the automatic, all the brakes will come off, so you won't fall into the trap of forgetting to check the brake cylinder pressure gauge before moving forward.

2- When starting the run I open the cocks and run for some distance and then I try to close them. Nothing! They will not close with a C keystroke. I had to use the cab handle to close them.

I tried another run, another place, another consist. It took me several presses of C to fully open cocks (that probably is designed) but as before I could not close them except with the handle.

I wonder if those two aspects of the updated Connie are just on purpose or may be something unwanted.

Shift C to close the cylinder cocks gradually.

[trev123]

'C' opens the cylinder cocks, 'Shift C' closes them.

Never thought of that or checked the manual. Probably because it wasn't a big issue for me. Mike.

[jalsina]

Much more than that. I changed the entire emitter blueprint and coordinated it with the advanced physics scripting. That's why you wouldn't get the same results if you just took the new emitter and put it into another loco that doesn't have my scripting.

One of those days I am going to look for a decompiler. There must be one somewhere.
Not that I am interested in what you are doing with that smoke, but one of my major headaches I have had in TS2015 has been the CSX SD80MAC (maybe you saw the Steam guide I published about fixing the couplings). I passed entire days trying to fix those brakes until I discovered they were just wrongly scripted, so once the brakes handle reaches 25-26% the brakes go into emergency. DTG has done nothing to fix that gorgeous diesel model. The solution is somewhere into the .OUT file.

What happens is that if you accelerate the loco from a standstill, with enough cylinder pressure to overcome the force of the engine brakes, but then reduce that pressure (closing the throttle and/or reducing the cut-off) with the engine brakes still on, they eventually stop the driving wheels, but because the locomotive is still moving forward with some momentum, it can't stop immediately and instead slides along the rails (and hence the sparks).

I got a new sparks session today but for another reason I did not understood. When trying to accelerate more than necessary the wheels locked, sparks appeared (no explanation----brakes were off), until I got an error telling I had broken the Connie for excessive speed (I believe I was below 10 mph but in a winter snow environment). I could not reproduce it. Maybe I pushed the regulator too much.
Check the sparks: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =528093140

I think instead of setting both brakes (engine and train) at the start, I'll leave the engine brake handle in Running. The train brake will still set both brakes, but when you release the brakes with the automatic, all the brakes will come off, so you won't fall into the trap of forgetting to check the brake cylinder pressure gauge before moving forward.

I don´t think that setting the train air brakes should set the independent of the loco. It has to have an "independent" control. A couple months ago a group in Steam posted (addressed to DTG) the need to have an HUD with the 3 different handles for the 3 brakes (instead of the 3 buttons and only one handle). Particularly this is a must for diesel dynamics that are independent from throttle in real life.
BTW, today I fell in the same trap again with the hidden independent but removed them on time before burning the shoes.

EDIT: Is it possible to modify the HUD in just one locomotive by using scripting or is it all in the core?

[ozinoz]

That screenie on your FB page of the Connie along the running board is so real. The smoke looks excellent - translucent towards the edges of the plume, good dispersal and fade out, and most importantly BLACK
You can almost hear the cinder rain. Any chance of a vid to over?

Its ironic - the community has finally found a champion that can wring miracles out of the lua scripting after all these years; and now we will be off to something else with the next version.

[trev123]

Have you tried JTs Class 5MT ? or the Clan Class and 4MT all from JT.

[mrennie]

One of those days I am going to look for a decompiler. There must be one somewhere.
Not that I am interested in what you are doing with that smoke, but one of my major headaches I have had in TS2015 has been the CSX SD80MAC (maybe you saw the Steam guide I published about fixing the couplings). I passed entire days trying to fix those brakes until I discovered they were just wrongly scripted, so once the brakes handle reaches 25-26% the brakes go into emergency. DTG has done nothing to fix that gorgeous diesel model. The solution is somewhere into the .OUT file.

I haven't got that loco, so I can't comment on it.

I got a new sparks session today but for another reason I did not understood. When trying to accelerate more than necessary the wheels locked, sparks appeared (no explanation----brakes were off), until I got an error telling I had broken the Connie for excessive speed (I believe I was below 10 mph but in a winter snow environment). I could not reproduce it. Maybe I pushed the regulator too much.
Check the sparks: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =528093140

Rather than locking, it sounds like you got wheel slip. Perhaps they were spinning so fast that it looked like they were still. In winter, there's automatically less traction (you can still change it on-the-fly if you want, with the key presses) so it's much easier to get wheel slip. The excessive speed refers to the equivalent speed of rotation of the driving wheels. You could be moving forward at less than 10mph, but the drivers could be rotating at a speed equivalent to travelling much faster. Eventually, the lubrication can't keep up with it and the valves start to suffer, things exceed their tolerances and the valve gear (and possibly the motion too) breaks. That's when you get the steam in the cylinders bursting out from the valve sleeves.

I don´t think that setting the train air brakes should set the independent of the loco. It has to have an "independent" control.

No, the automatic train brake does set the train brakes and the engine brakes - there's something called the J-valve that responds to changes in head-end brake pipe pressure, causing a corresponding (scaled) change in engine brake cylinder pressure. The engine brake handle (called "independent" in diesels) is to allow the engineer to set or release (bail-off) the engine brakes without using the automatic, i.e. independently. Note that if you have set the train brakes, so that the engine brakes also come on, if you put the engine brake handle in Running, it won't lower the engine brake cylinder pressure below what was set as a result of the automatic train brake application. To get it lower, you have to use the spring-loaded bail-off. You can put the engine brake handle in slow or quick application to put even more pressure in the engine brake cylinders, but when you return it to Running, the pressure will drop back but only as far as it was set by the automatic train brake.

There's a superb document that explains it all in great detail (this is one of my two bibles for air brakes): http://railtown.team.parks.ca.gov/volunteers/Document%20Library20/1/ABTH%20Manual%20Railtown.pdf

You should read all about the 6-ET brake stand.

The Connie upgrade is the only loco in the entire game that models the 6-ET properly (and the FEF-3 upgrade will bring the 8-ET stand up to the same standard).

BTW, today I fell in the same trap again with the hidden independent but removed them on time before burning the shoes.

But you're learning

EDIT: Is it possible to modify the HUD in just one locomotive by using scripting or is it all in the core?

There's very little you can do to influence the F4 HUD - it's in the core. The most I've ever done in scripting was to force the GTEL's F4 HUD to show the rpm values that were being calculated by my script. I've never found a way to change the buttons that are available in the HUD. It's a pity, because I'd love to replace the windscreen wipers button in the steam loco HUD with something more appropriate, such a button for the dampers. It's ridiculous that they included the former and not the latter. I've never seen a steam loco with wipers, but they all have dampers. Thank goodness for M and Shift M.

[jalsina]

I had no clue about the independents being set along the air brakes, mostly considering that physically there are two distinct control handles.
When hitting emergency it would have some logic. The engineers in a very difficult emergency situation that required a very short braking distance (like a train coming to you), would even invert the cut-off to the maximum with the regulator open.

Thanks for the air brakes heads up. I have some good books at home with the technical stuff for steam locomotives, like:
http://www.amazon.com/Steam-Locomotive- ... in+america
http://www.amazon.com/Classic-American- ... ocomotives
The first one is very good. It is a 1952 edition which I purchased used, a few years ago.
The second is mostly devoted to post American 4-4-0 locos but with lots of engineering information including an examination for "trainman" about air brakes (on sale in Amazon).
I have also the very British bible in locomotives: http://www.amazon.com/Locomotives-Popul ... eally+work (this one is required bibliography about steam).

About the custom HUD you may remember this thread from July. You were in:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/24010/dis ... 052301603/
I had some hope for TS2016, but.....

I have started to read the ADV part of the Connie. It is fearsome. I should go to Cheyenne to work for UP steam shops.

[ozinoz]

Mike,

With the first update, was there any tweak to the whistle exhaust steam? I was doing some route testing yesterday with my now updated Connie and noticed that the loco exhaust smoke was being blown back along the loco as you would expect moving forward, but the whistle plume was being blown forward? Not sure also if it was my useless auto-fireman (so I can concentrate on other things) but there was plumes of steam from what looked like a "faulty pick up" from the injector. Couldn't manually shut it off. Might just have been an aboration, but I thought worth mentioning.

You are turning into a tease - all sizzle, no sausage Your FB mentions a vid of the new exhaust mods and here we are, days later, still squirming in anticipation...

[mrennie]

Mike,

With the first update, was there any tweak to the whistle exhaust steam? I was doing some route testing yesterday with my now updated Connie and noticed that the loco exhaust smoke was being blown back along the loco as you would expect moving forward, but the whistle plume was being blown forward?

That's strange, mine goes backwards. They've both got the same value for "External forces factor" and the initial vector, so they should blow in the same direction.

I wonder if it's one of the things I corrected after that update went up on RWA? Maybe.

Not sure also if it was my useless auto-fireman (so I can concentrate on other things) but there was plumes of steam from what looked like a "faulty pick up" from the injector. Couldn't manually shut it off. Might just have been an aboration, but I thought worth mentioning.

Did you happen to turn on the F4 HUD by accident? There's a core code bug that makes the F4 HUD turn on the exhaust injector water. If something like that happens, turn off the HUD, then reset the injector (push the injector lever forwards and turn the water off)

You are turning into a tease - all sizzle, no sausage Your FB mentions a vid of the new exhaust mods and here we are, days later, still squirming in anticipation...

Yeah, I was going to do that, thanks for reminding me

I got a bit side-tracked with an idiotic conversation in the Steam forum (as a result of which, and just to prove a point, I'm thinking of setting up a competition where you have to count how many animated parts there are in the FEF-3).

[jalsina]

I am not in my PC now, but I think I observed the same different direction of plume and smoke as ozinoz.

I got a bit side-tracked with an idiotic conversation in the Steam forum (as a result of which, and just to prove a point, I'm thinking of setting up a competition where you have to count how many animated parts there are in the FEF-3).

Please don't loose your precious time with that people. I am right now pounding them and at the same time supporting their insults.
I have a plan.