Update on the steamers

[dimovski]

AFAIK You should look into max water mass, not boiler volume.

Also, check how high the steam consumption and generation is - you'd have to do some tweaking if you never reach max output/exhaust limit. (tweaking == boiler efficiency goes up, cylinder efficiency down => more steam generated, more steam used)

[dtrainBNSF1]

AFAIK You should look into max water mass, not boiler volume.

Also, check how high the steam consumption and generation is - you'd have to do some tweaking if you never reach max output/exhaust limit. (tweaking == boiler efficiency goes up, cylinder efficiency down => more steam generated, more steam used)

I've done testing and fine tuning before hand and yes the boiler does reach its calculated max output and correct behaviour with the exhaust limit. Cylinder effectivity is now set so that at 10% cutoff the locomotive can hit its top speed AND steam usage just exceeds steam generation at that speed, just like I was taught by mrennie.

I haven't had a chance to make any tweaks to the boiler volume or the water mass just yet. The regular semester just started today- I'm just checking in between classes.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Just as a test of concept, I made an alternate version of 700's and 765's tenders last night to see how they'd look with an auxiliary tender.

Watcha think?

Screenshot_Marias Pass_48.40974--114.30057_12-35-45.jpg

Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.50987--78.40936_12-02-10.jpg

Screenshot_Marias Pass_48.51687--111.87860_12-03-15.jpg

Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.50945--78.41019_12-02-20.jpg

[dtrainBNSF1]

AFAIK You should look into max water mass, not boiler volume.

Also, check how high the steam consumption and generation is - you'd have to do some tweaking if you never reach max output/exhaust limit. (tweaking == boiler efficiency goes up, cylinder efficiency down => more steam generated, more steam used)

I've done testing and fine tuning before hand and yes the boiler does reach its calculated max output and correct behaviour with the exhaust limit. Cylinder effectivity is now set so that at 10% cutoff the locomotive can hit its top speed AND steam usage just exceeds steam generation at that speed, just like I was taught by mrennie.

I haven't had a chance to make any tweaks to the boiler volume or the water mass just yet. The regular semester just started today- I'm just checking in between classes.

It turns out that the fuel efficiency turned out to be a combination of things.

1) The boiler volume was a bit low.
2) The water mass also needed to be increased
3) I had neglected the BurnRatevsSteamUsage .csv file. It needed to be adjusted to take into the account that the boiler is now producing steam much differently than it did way back before I started tinkering with the boiler.

As a result, the Big Boy at least can still gulp down nearly half of its water supply when running at tonnage between Cheyenne and Buford on the 1.5% grade (which matches claims both officially from UP and from former enginemen who worked on the Big Boys) but drifting down grade from Hermosa to Laramie you hardly need to worry about filling the boiler because you're not using very much steam going down grade.

Future test runs will help fine-tune the rate at which water enters the boiler using the injectors - the injectors can keep up with demand now but it still feels a bit slow (at least for me).

Once these adjustments are made on the Big Boy I'll proceed with similar adjustments on the Cab Forwards as they are the next engine mods I want to release. Good thing there's a 3-day weekend coming up .

[dimovski]

I'm trying to figure out how to assure full boiler output when steam is actually used without the loco blowing off permanently when no steam is used...

(which happens with 0 blast exponent and 1 drafting...)


Just today, I started fiddling with this evaporation-rate-vs-fuel-fired thingie.... here's what I came up with (I love spreadsheets, btw):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/110pb0k503lvb ... .xlsx?dl=0

[dtrainBNSF1]

I'm trying to figure out how to assure full boiler output when steam is actually used without the loco blowing off permanently when no steam is used...

(which happens with 0 blast exponent and 1 drafting...)


Just today, I started fiddling with this evaporation-rate-vs-fuel-fired thingie.... here's what I came up with (I love spreadsheets, btw):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/110pb0k503lvb ... .xlsx?dl=0

So is your loco just taking a really long time to blow off the excess steam or is the safety valve really not closing like it should?

[dimovski]

No, apparently, with a blast exponent of 0, your steam production is... equal to the boiler output, no matter how much steam you're using. (assuming ideal fire mass and correct damper usage)

[dtrainBNSF1]

No, apparently, with a blast exponent of 0, your steam production is... equal to the boiler output, no matter how much steam you're using. (assuming ideal fire mass and correct damper usage)

So just don't leave the blast exponent at 0 then.

Here's a sample boiler configuration from one of my larger steamers:

<Boiler>
<EngineSimulation-cSteamBoilerBlueprint>
<Volume d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000209C40" d:precision="string">2633</Volume>
<MaxPressure d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000C07240" d:precision="string">300</MaxPressure>
<ExhaustLimit d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="00000000006A1841" d:precision="string">250000</ExhaustLimit>
<BlastExponent d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A09999E13F" d:precision="string">0.4</BlastExponent>
<MaxOutput d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="00000000DC870441" d:precision="string">168188</MaxOutput>
<DraftingEffect d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F83F" d:precision="string">1.5</DraftingEffect>
<Effectiveness d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000040" d:precision="string">1.2</Effectiveness>
<MaxWaterHeightMultiple d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F43F" d:precision="string">1.25</MaxWaterHeightMultiple>
<MinPrimingLevel d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A09999F13F" d:precision="string">1.1</MinPrimingLevel>
<PrimingFactor d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F03F" d:precision="string">1</PrimingFactor>
<PrimingReductionWithCylinderCocksOpen d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000D03F" d:precision="string">0.25</PrimingReductionWithCylinderCocksOpen>
<PrimingPowerLossProportion d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A09999C93F" d:precision="string">0.2</PrimingPowerLossProportion>
<MaxWaterMass d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000070C740" d:precision="string">30512</MaxWaterMass>
<PrimingWaterUsageIncreaseProportion d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000D03F" d:precision="string">0.25</PrimingWaterUsageIncreaseProportion>
<Superheater d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000606666F63F" d:precision="string">1.405759682224429</Superheater>
<Responsiveness d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F03F" d:precision="string">1</Responsiveness>
<Length d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A099992540" d:precision="string">10.8</Length>
<GaugeHeight d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A09999B93F" d:precision="string">0.1</GaugeHeight>
<SafetyValve>
<EngineSimulation-cSteamSafetyValve d:id="57330728">
<PressureForOpen d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000A07240" d:precision="string">298</PressureForOpen>
<PressureForClose d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000607240" d:precision="string">294</PressureForClose>
<SteamUsage d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000088D340" d:precision="string">20000</SteamUsage>
</EngineSimulation-cSteamSafetyValve>
<EngineSimulation-cSteamSafetyValve d:id="57300864">
<PressureForOpen d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000C07240" d:precision="string">300</PressureForOpen>
<PressureForClose d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000707240" d:precision="string">295</PressureForClose>
<SteamUsage d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="00000000004CFD40" d:precision="string">100000</SteamUsage>
</EngineSimulation-cSteamSafetyValve>
</SafetyValve>
</EngineSimulation-cSteamBoilerBlueprint>
</Boiler>

[dimovski]

Well, yes, that's pretty much default values... but you don't quite reach boiler output with that, from my experience... I'll try it nonetheless.

[dtrainBNSF1]

I've begun to notice on my latest round of modifications that the F4 HUD after some time stops reflecting what's actually going on in the boiler. The F4 HUD will show that steam pressure is dropping steadily while the F5 HUD shows the exact opposite. I have found that using the information in the F5 HUD is accurate, so for now I'll be ignoring the F4 HUD and I'll switch to full-on driving with the F5 HUD (which to be honest I should have done a while ago). This change in driving style I've found to be much more fun - I've begun really developing my own personal firing style, like fine-tuning the stoking rate to maintain a constant amount of fuel in the boiler.

Maybe I should try firing the FEF-3 manually for once instead of relying on the professional AI fireman I've been promised that it's an absolute lark.

I still haven't figured out why it appears that water keeps flowing from the tender after the injectors are shut off, though.

[mrennie]

Maybe I should try firing the FEF-3 manually for once instead of relying on the professional AI fireman I've been promised that it's an absolute lark.

I recommend watching these two videos first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVyj-v86d14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORYnfl5VSY

[dtrainBNSF1]

Maybe I should try firing the FEF-3 manually for once instead of relying on the professional AI fireman I've been promised that it's an absolute lark.

I recommend watching these two videos first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVyj-v86d14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORYnfl5VSY

I've seen the second video before. I've yet to see the first one, though.

[dtrainBNSF1]

I've had my first runs with the Adv FEF-3 with me firing. As the late George Carlin once said, "[That wasn't] too horrifying. In fact in an odd way it's rather pleasant! " (Please don't ask in what context he said that) Biggest challenge for me isn't so much to keep it steaming; it's keeping that firebox clean. Good thing that sand bucket's nearby .

I'm getting a better feel for oil burners. Maybe I can try something similar with other oil burners in future mods...

I've got more work to do.

[mrennie]

I've had my first runs with the Adv FEF-3 with me firing. As the late George Carlin once said, "[That wasn't] too horrifying. In fact in an odd way it's rather pleasant! " (Please don't ask in what context he said that) Biggest challenge for me isn't so much to keep it steaming; it's keeping that firebox clean. Good thing that sand bucket's nearby .

I'm getting a better feel for oil burners. Maybe I can try something similar with other oil burners in future mods...

I've got more work to do.

I'm really glad to hear that you're getting the hang of it It can look intimidating at first, but that makes it all the more satisfying, I believe.

I suspect it would be very difficult to do anything similar with the other so-called oil burners in TS. As far as I know (and I don't actually own them, so I could be wrong), they don't simulate one of the essential pieces of equipment in an oil burner - the atomizer, nor the way you have to get the damper just right (in the FEF-3, too little or too much damper will reduce the steam generation, unlike in the core code's coal-burning simulation where more damper always equals more steam). There's a sneaky trick I used to make all of that work, one that I shan't reveal to anyone (sorry ... I already got burnt when I revealed how to do wheel slip).

[dtrainBNSF1]

I'm really glad to hear that you're getting the hang of it It can look intimidating at first, but that makes it all the more satisfying, I believe.

I suspect it would be very difficult to do anything similar with the other so-called oil burners in TS. As far as I know (and I don't actually own them, so I could be wrong), they don't simulate one of the essential pieces of equipment in an oil burner - the atomizer, nor the way you have to get the damper just right (in the FEF-3, too little or too much damper will reduce the steam generation, unlike in the core code's coal-burning simulation where more damper always equals more steam). There's a sneaky trick I used to make all of that work, one that I shan't reveal to anyone (sorry ... I already got burnt when I revealed how to do wheel slip).

That's fine. I won't ask you to reveal any of your secrets. And yes it'd be VERY difficult to try and do something similar in other oil burners. For a lark I tried it on 700 a few weeks ago. Lost steam pressure in no time flat after getting her up to speed (good thing I had a back up ).

It'd be interesting if I could pull off something to make the experience at the very least similar to an oil burner, even if it's just the fast response time of the fire. I suspect that if I wanted to get too technical about it I'd have to take the engine completely apart and rebuild it from the ground up . Not that I'd actually do that; I modify steamers, not build them.