Suggestion for the upcoming upgrade to TS2013

[robbit]

I don't have a problem with people being critical either, I do have a problem when they have to mention it in every post they make even when it is not a railworks forum. I see RW getting trashed in MSTS forums and Run8 forums and Trainz forums by the same people. Like a vendetta. If you have owned RW for more than 6 months you already know there are some things that could be better. Telling us about it in every post, every day for 3 years is not necessary. A lot of us are enjoying RW just fine.

I agree with you here. Discussions as grown adults about your likes and dislikes are fine. But bashing is a waste of time and gets you nowhere. Letting of steam once in a while is fine also as far as I am concerned but not every post everyday forever

[Chacal]

I don't have a problem with people being critical either, I do have a problem when they have to mention it in every post they make even when it is not a railworks forum. [...] Telling us about it in every post, every day for 3 years is not necessary.

THIS.
The one thing some prima donnas in other forums don't understand.
Once you have told your opinion on a subject once, you're done!

When someone tells me his opinion more than once, it insults me.
It's like saying I'm too stupid to understand the first time.
If I don't agree with it, repetition is not going to convince me.

[dejoh]

The complainers and bashers are always the same ones,(at the Trainsim forum) and its getting worse.
I started as one of the first members there when MSTS came out as I have been here. This forum is a peaceful
rest with exciting information and facinating projects presented by folks who enjoy RailWorks. Sure there are
problems, but as a group, we tend to fix them.
Lets not let the venomous mood at Trainsim forum creep into this place.
Thanks for letting me vent

[GSkid]

I feel there should be a stickied thread about problems with 2013. The thread could be monitored for complaints about it. Then in the first post of the thread, make a running list of those problems from that monitoring of the thread. That way...... people that enter the thread can look at the list and know if it's been brought up already. And if it has been brought up (cuz it's on the list), no need to go on a never ending tirade about it. And as the problems are fixed, you simply mark it on the list as FIXED. This also makes an easy reference for the Railworks team to see what needs work if they should choose to monitor the thread for that purpose.

I get a little nervous when moderators of a forum start wanting to move towards an atmosphere of puppy dogs and daffodils where dissent is discouraged. Not discouraged necessarily directly, but through subtext of actions and statements. I have heard bad things about censorship on this forum from people on other forums. Some left of their own accord. Others were banned and quoted the post that supposedly sealed their fate.... which looked innocuous. To be fair, I didn't go deeply in,to their post history. But then again.... if the MODs are deleting them, I can't read them to get a clearer picture of who is right or wrong. I also understand that disgruntled members be they in the right or in the wrong, are usually the loudest in the crowd.

I do know this forum was mentioned by far the most. Despite that, I joined anyways to decide for myself. So far what I have seen has been fair. If I feel there is validity to those complaints based on my own forum observations, I guess I will join the chorus. Until then, I'm here to stay (barring a ban for some reason) and look forward as a member. I did encounter a member in the Donner Pass thread that seemed to be trolling. Why? Cuz he went on a tirade that turned personal and went on and on about it. He wanted the makers of the route outed and shamed by name. He's said the same on other forums. Seemed more like a campaign on his part in my opinion.

I don't want the developers viciously attacked. But I also don't want them coddled either because they may have a thin skin to legitimate criticism. They especially deserve it when it's something obvious and crucial to the reasonable execution of the sim. Not complaining that a tree is 20 feet from the tracks when in real life it's 23 feet away. That's just scraping for issues to complain about at that point.

And speaking of sim.... if they are gonna call it a SIM, they should make it a SIM. If they are gonna make it a game, then call it a game. If they want to make it a true sim, but make a newbie/game MODE that's dumb-ed down and forgiving, I've got no problem with that. Just as long as it's a sim FIRST and FOREMOST, and a train game SECOND.

That's my....

[artimrj]

Well what is your defintion of a sim GSSkid? That is where the problem lies. What I think is a sim is not the same as you think. If you read the posts by the complainers at the other forums, they all have their own opinion of what a sim is too. The way I see it, they are all games. When I am running a train, to me it is a sim because I am pretending/simulating driving a real train. Or in FSX simulating flying an airplane. Or in Silent Hunter simulating I am a sub commander, or in COD simulating I am a hard core soldier. Or in Photoshop simulating I am a graphics designer. It is all fun and games to me whatever you want to call it.

This place is not daffodils and puppy dogs, it is a place for people who like Railworks to exploit it for what we can get out of it. Not moan and whine about everything we think it should be or do or have, relentlessly. If you go to trainsim.com go to any thread in the Railworks section and you can find the same people making the same complaints and accusations about RSC over and over for 3 years now at least. That is not tolerated here. And if you look closer, the majority of those people are not here and chances are you heard the complaints about RWA in one of their posts. The owner of trainsimcom does not feel the same way the owner of RWA feels so they go there to see how far they can go before a moderator stops them, and it is pretty far. They do get stopped eventually,they ease up for a while then start right back at it again.

You can come to RWA, read a bunch of posts, maybe learn something you didn't know, find a download you didn't have and leave with out having a headache or thinking the people here suck or are a bunch of whiners. We are having fun with what we have and some of us are working on making it better from our side by doing some exploring and editting and testing things to make them better/different than what we started with. We are making do with what we have, or as my good friend from Brazil says, "Who doesn't have dog, hunts with cat!"

If you want to have fun and good freindships, this is the place to be. No one is belittled here, no question is too dumb, we all know RW's limitations, we all want more from it but is not the focus of our day. What more can I say?

[Chacal]

I don't think there's censorship of ideas and constructive criticism here. If there is censorship of abuse and annoying rants, then that's good. For instance, you are probably the 1000th guy who writes this here, to which almost everyone agrees already, so it's annoying to see it again:

And speaking of sim.... if they are gonna call it a SIM, they should make it a SIM. If they are gonna make it a game, then call it a game. If they want to make it a true sim, but make a newbie/game MODE that's dumb-ed down and forgiving, I've got no problem with that. Just as long as it's a sim FIRST and FOREMOST, and a train game SECOND.

Yes we know, and you should tell that to RSC, not us, because there's nothing we can do about it, and RSC doesn't read this forum, so you're wasting our time. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes the trainsim.com forum annoying and that we try to avoid here.

[OldProf]

The owner of trainsimcom does not feel the same way the owner of RWA feels so they go there to see how far they can go before a moderator stops them, and it is pretty far. They do get stopped eventually,they ease up for a while then start right back at it again.

Bob, you forgot the intermediary step, when the cronic and repetetive griper vehemently declares that he is deleting RW, stopping work on all of his (imaginary?) RW projects, and quitting the forum for good ... only to return in the same old vein a short while after, as though his temper tantrum had never occurred.

[BillPeck]

Many years ago my first Gunnery Sargeant stopped me in mid bitch and said privite Peck if your bitching just to be
bitching don't its a waste of time. However if you have a bitch about an issue always offer an alternative. It has been for the most how I approach a complaint not always successful but I try.

I have a mental list of forum contributors that I will always read when I check this forum and one other that I belong to. Why? Because these individuals almost always have some thing to contribute. Is their contribution always easy to swallow no so what.

Administrators and Moderators of forum sites have a heavy burden if they bar someone they are called heavy handed or worse. The other factor in a free society there is the freedom from censorship. Having said that some of the bitching should be deleted as it detracts from the reason for the existance of the forum itself.
Is RWA an open forum no it is dedicated to Railworks and to rail simming/gaming therefore the subjects are more or less directed at that purpose.

Is every thing right with Railworks/or Trainz/or MSTS/or Run8 ? Not in this century. And the reason is we as operators are not in the open air running real trains we are running in an artificial enviroment with limiting
factors . We can approach realism with dedicated controls, multi display screens, heavy duty computers,
rooms designed like the cab of an engine, chairs that rock, and in the end we are still playing at realism.

The one thing I trully enjoy is when some one has a real complaint i.e a problem it has always amazed me at the number of indiviuals that jump in without insults or debasing the person giving aide and assistance. In more cases than not the originator of the need for assistance will not report back nor sau they appreciate the help and thank the person/s who helped.

The upshoot is bitching and badmouthing cant be stopped it is after all a human factor. My suggestion is if the post is just carpping, badmouthing etc don't repsond. Then after several days deleate the post,

Thats my humble ramblings thanks for reading

[Hawk]

The other factor in a free society there is the freedom from censorship.

Freedom from censorship? Shouldn't that be freedom to say what you want?
BTW! The first amendment was written to apply to what Congress can do and has no bearing on this forum.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The thing with freedom of speech is, as with all the freedoms we enjoy, you have to be responsible enough to accept any consequences that may arise from exercising that freedom.
One of the consequences with saying whatever you want on a forum such as this, which is privately owned by the way, is your post being edited or deleted and possibly being banned. That is stated in the Rules & Guidelines as well as on the first page you see when you register for membership in this forum.

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[Hawk]

I get a little nervous when moderators of a forum start wanting to move towards an atmosphere of puppy dogs and daffodils where dissent is discouraged.

Negative comments or dissent are not discouraged here, contrary to what those that were banned said, unless they're made with hostility and denigration, which is up to the administrators interpretation and discretion.

See my reply to Bill above.

[rhovak]

Ok ok.... I got bored on the first page, lol.
I can't wait for TS2013! I work nights and last night was really long! I couldn't wait to get home this morning.. but now I have to stay awake for another few hours (Thank goodness for energy drinks lol). I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait
Anyhow, since there's a little more time to make suggestions, the only suggestion I would make for TS2013 is to have the camera follow the train like in trackside view but from wherever you set the camera. In other words, fly the camera to where you want then have it pan to follow the train. ...My number 4 button is getting a little worn

[artimrj]

Did you try the 8 button yet? You can fly anywhere you want and sit there and wait for the train to come by.

[PapaXpress]

I opened the "Silent opinion" thread. Have fun!

[rhovak]

Yup artimrj. I love all the buttons What i'm thinking of is using 8 to get to where I want, then it becoming a 4 from that position for the smooth panning motion. I guess it's my panning the camera with my mouse skills that are lacking

[glenn68]

I don't have a problem with people being critical either, I do have a problem when they have to mention it in every post they make even when it is not a railworks forum. I see RW getting trashed in MSTS forums and Run8 forums and Trainz forums by the same people. Like a vendetta. If you have owned RW for more than 6 months you already know there are some things that could be better. Telling us about it in every post, every day for 3 years is not necessary. A lot of us are enjoying RW just fine.

Bob,
I agree 100 percent.

Glenn