New York Division-Bergen Line - Part Deux!

[minerman146]

The Wednesday Route Update Post (Thursday Edition)
Route Update Status:
[x] Thinking about it
[ ] Nope

Welcome to the every popular, sometimes amusing and on occasion, informative thread. Since our last update, I have been all over the place on the route. The bulk of the work has been in Elmwood Park, NJ, which is just West of Passaic Junction. So since I updated I have been moving East and West trying to nail some more consignees. My obstacle is buildings and houses. This is pretty par for the course here on the Bergen. As other route builders know, towns and cities are killer and take up the most time. Its really just the sheer number of assets. And in my case it runs from 2000 to 4000 assets per kilometer, and they all get laid one at a time. In the end, after huge amounts of time we get the result we are looking for ... and can move on.

Sometimes I need a little variety. I might drive a bit, or do little projects I think about on my commute to prepare for finalization of the route. One of these little projects is audio for track. As you know you can change the sound of track based on type of substructure it runs on. So, I ran from Suffern to Hoboken and altered the track sounds, for the bridges, stations and tunnels. I think you will enjoy the difference in the subtle changes in track sound as you ply the golden rails of the Bergen.

Also, I have been eager to keep working on Manhattan. So I spent today ( i have a day off ) working on the Manhattan Skyline from Hoboken. Every once in a while I read about someone griping about our skyline. It took some time to figure out how to get that distant scenery to show up. But we got it ... boy did we get it. For those of you that do not know. My Hoboken is NOT an import of DTG's. This version of Hoboken, as portrayed on the glorious New York Division, is all hand worked by yours truly. You can tell its mine as your computer creaks, grinds and grunts trying to process all the detail goodness.

So lets go to the pictures! I am so proud of the way this has come out. And to make it look over the top, I did these shots in Autumn, Cloudy at 5pm, so you get the long rays of golden sunshine, splashing across the real estate.

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And there ya have it.
Carry on!

[buzz456]

From the window of one of the apartments across the street from the yard.

Screenshot_New York Division - Bergen Line_40.73617--74.03384_12-32-43.jpg

[minerman146]

Buzz, I had better get cracking so I can release tomorrow to update that shot. That shot fooled me, I never looked at the scenery from that position - I thought it was real!

[Riptrack59]

Nice screenshots. Were did you get the fence in picture #3. Come to think of it...what is the base route for your route?

[minerman146]

Riptrack59: The fence in Image3 is integrated into the model of Hoboken Terminal in the NJ Coastline Route by DTG. The black fence loft on that route has smaller diameter wire. Route Base: Sherman Hill (track, textures and signals). Then came Munich-Augsburg, the American Asset Pack, the European Asset Pack and last was the NJ Coastline Route.

[minerman146]

Here Comes Manhattan !
Route Update Number 213
New York Division-Bergen Line 9.9.5: Elmwood Park

Additions: Residential-Commercial work in Elmwood Park, NJ. Extend track West on NYS&W to Passaic River to access the Marcal Paper Factory. Modify Track Rumble Effects throughout the route. Rework the Manhattan Skyline. The two remaining consignees: Marcal Paper and the Stepan Company will be worked at a later date.

Fixes:Correct Error on Middletown to Hoboken QD

Old file size: 168.940 MB
New file size: 168.940 MB

Here is what I have been talking about the past 3 weeks - in an easy to understand picture!

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[Riptrack59]

Riptrack59: The fence in Image3 is integrated into the model of Hoboken Terminal in the NJ Coastline Route by DTG. The black fence loft on that route has smaller diameter wire. Route Base: Sherman Hill (track, textures and signals). Then came Munich-Augsburg, the American Asset Pack, the European Asset Pack and last was the NJ Coastline Route.

Now I think I see the problem that all route builders face.
For me to enjoy your route, I would have to buy two routes that I have no interest in. I guess it depends on what TS version you have determines what 3 party routes you can enjoy. That is unless you have a fleet of model builders working for you...which most of us don't have. I might have to give TS2019 route building some more thought before I continue any further.

By the way, your route looks nicely detailed.

[minerman146]

Riptrack59:

For me to enjoy your route, I would have to buy two routes that I have no interest in

That is THE obstacle for many people to get on board with the Bergen. Humor me, I am a freelance developer using products by DTG and hosted by Steam. Let's say all 3 routes are $20.00, so $60. Out of the $60, Steams gets roughly $20, for its hosting platform and then DTG gets the remaining $40. So, I put about 7000 hours in to the Bergen, and frankly its greater than the sum of its parts. And my monetary return is actually a negative. In fact, this route cost $120,000 of my labor to build. Hers is an interesting fact: I have 2,962 subscribers. Presuming they bought all three routes:
Steam's Share: $59,220
DTG's Share: $118,440
Minerman: ($120,000)

Its a hobby - the barrier to entry is money. This route costs roughly $60.00 retail. It used to be more off sale and when the other routes were newer. If you or anyone else doesn't have a need for Munich-Augsburg, the route is functional and is missing 25% of noticeable detail. What you said breaks my heart, when you or anyone else says that about my 'artwork'. However, its not my platform, not my software and not my hosting. And these 2 firms have a right to their compensation. And thanks to them, I can manipulate their software and present to the public, a finely detailed representation of a locale that would be highly unlikely to have been produced commercially. So, it was my choice to enhance these 3 DLCs for the benefit of those that chose to subscribe and to affect additional sales of said DLC to the host and developer for their financial gain.

When I think about the time and covert that into cost of labor - I get a bit ticked so excuse me.

My recommendation to you, to retain full artistic control, and to reap, not just the satisfaction of building the Laurel Line, but the fruit of your labor, is go to get in the DTG developers program. Then your finished product will go on Steam and have access to that audience. I very much like your models and I hope to see more of them and definitely Scranton.

For the record, and as previously stated; The New York Division Bergen Line was supposed to be a 15 mile proof of concept route to entice DTG to build it. (Hopefully in Erie Lackawanna). They know who I am and other than not responding to my emails to get into the partner programme, and not telling me directly that there is too much DLC to convert this route to one you could buy, they have been very good to me. And Matt Peddlesden is very kind and honorable man, who I respect and appreciate his kind words about my work. And since I am letting it all hang out, the developers I approached to build EL equipment for this game were also very generous and open minded (see: Travelbytrain GP35) and also I have on my computer, a partially completed EL model that another developer was working on (the super secret spy squirrel project). This project looks to be kaput and I was financing the research on the model too!

I love the Bergen Line.
(yes,its very detailed)

[buzz456]

Riptrack59: The fence in Image3 is integrated into the model of Hoboken Terminal in the NJ Coastline Route by DTG. The black fence loft on that route has smaller diameter wire. Route Base: Sherman Hill (track, textures and signals). Then came Munich-Augsburg, the American Asset Pack, the European Asset Pack and last was the NJ Coastline Route.

Now I think I see the problem that all route builders face.
For me to enjoy your route, I would have to buy two routes that I have no interest in. I guess it depends on what TS version you have determines what 3 party routes you can enjoy. That is unless you have a fleet of model builders working for you...which most of us don't have. I might have to give TS2019 route building some more thought before I continue any further.

By the way, your route looks nicely detailed.

It's the price of enjoyment sometimes. The cost of this is one night out for dinner and a little entertainment. Deal with it or see how it runs without some of these extras.

[minerman146]

I was getting a bit of driving in tonight - testing the new work ... and now I am typing.
1. Buzz - you, me and beer
2. Other cool things that I appreciate about this route and the people who enjoy it.
So I am driving this guy right here by Jointed Rail/Searchlight Simulations
:

20181130194354_1.jpg

The location is Croxton Yard, the high-rise on the right is Harmon Cove Tower, Secaucus, NJ, the over pass is the Meadowlands Parkway. And if you were to go physically to this place - you would see it matches.
*my point* So, you know what those guys over at Jointed Rail/Searchlight Simulations did? They have a working radio in the cab. You can tune this radio - the have recordings of Conrail and NS radio traffic. So here is the kicker, they have channel "52" and it says "Bergen Area"! As this aint Norway, they must have set this darn channel for this here route!
So, here I am on a Friday night with a drag of cars, creeping out of Croxton, and I can hear my brother New Yawkers and those Jersey boys while I drive my train.
THAT is very cool my friends

[Riptrack59]

Riptrack59:

For me to enjoy your route, I would have to buy two routes that I have no interest in

That is THE obstacle for many people to get on board with the Bergen. Humor me, I am a freelance developer using products by DTG and hosted by Steam. Let's say all 3 routes are $20.00, so $60. Out of the $60, Steams gets roughly $20, for its hosting platform and then DTG gets the remaining $40. So, I put about 7000 hours in to the Bergen, and frankly its greater than the sum of its parts. And my monetary return is actually a negative. In fact, this route cost $120,000 of my labor to build. Hers is an interesting fact: I have 2,962 subscribers. Presuming they bought all three routes:
Steam's Share: $59,220
DTG's Share: $118,440
Minerman: ($120,000)

Its a hobby - the barrier to entry is money. This route costs roughly $60.00 retail. It used to be more off sale and when the other routes were newer. If you or anyone else doesn't have a need for Munich-Augsburg, the route is functional and is missing 25% of noticeable detail. What you said breaks my heart, when you or anyone else says that about my 'artwork'. However, its not my platform, not my software and not my hosting. And these 2 firms have a right to their compensation. And thanks to them, I can manipulate their software and present to the public, a finely detailed representation of a locale that would be highly unlikely to have been produced commercially. So, it was my choice to enhance these 3 DLCs for the benefit of those that chose to subscribe and to affect additional sales of said DLC to the host and developer for their financial gain.

When I think about the time and covert that into cost of labor - I get a bit ticked so excuse me.

My recommendation to you, to retain full artistic control, and to reap, not just the satisfaction of building the Laurel Line, but the fruit of your labor, is go to get in the DTG developers program. Then your finished product will go on Steam and have access to that audience. I very much like your models and I hope to see more of them and definitely Scranton.

For the record, and as previously stated; The New York Division Bergen Line was supposed to be a 15 mile proof of concept route to entice DTG to build it. (Hopefully in Erie Lackawanna). They know who I am and other than not responding to my emails to get into the partner programme, and not telling me directly that there is too much DLC to convert this route to one you could buy, they have been very good to me. And Matt Peddlesden is very kind and honorable man, who I respect and appreciate his kind words about my work. And since I am letting it all hang out, the developers I approached to build EL equipment for this game were also very generous and open minded (see: Travelbytrain GP35) and also I have on my computer, a partially completed EL model that another developer was working on (the super secret spy squirrel project). This project looks to be kaput and I was financing the research on the model too!

I love the Bergen Line.
(yes,its very detailed)

I think I misrepresented the point that I was trying to make. I wasn't referring to any of your own efforts in making a route. I was referring to the problem of the work needed to make an enjoyable product for others to use. I'm making all these models that nobody will enjoy because they don't have all the other payware items that I used to make the route work in the first place. I'm afraid to say that this is were the Railworks franchise falls short on gathering new users. I'm glad you to hear you have other people supporting your efforts. I will never have that. Heck, most of my questions go unanswered no matter where I post them. Actually to be honest, I found that in many rail sim forums...that could be the reason why I bounce around from one sim to another. Also, the Laurel Line itself can't go on the workshop as I manipulated the HSC track rules to get tighter turns for the loop tracks. I hear that is frowned upon.

The original idea for the Laurel Line was that it would be free except for the base route. Looking at all the scenery items I will need to complete this route, I don't see that as being a realistic goal anymore. The amount of payware is truly crippling this hobby. I'm not complaining for myself, I'm complaining for the other users that might be interesting in the Laurel Line and are turned off by needed more payware just to run my freeware route. Personally I would rather see the Laurel Line in TS2019 then any other sim. I like the program I just don't really know if my own personal satisfaction alone will be enough to see me through to the end of the route building process.

[minerman146]

Riptrack - There was some venting going on in my post. I get triggered when I realize the barrier to entry to my work. The point is for people to see it and use it. My return is their comments, pictures and You Tube videos. Yep, other entities benefit indirectly. Its ok. But all I want is my darn EL route! And since I had to build, well, my guts went into too. The amount of time to produce this, and I didnt even build models, is ungodly. 2 days ago I calculated my time on Steam. All I do is this route. I have been working on the Bergen for 383 days - that is 24 hour days and crazy. This route is like monumental there is so much 'stuff' on it.

Back to you.

Your project is extremely worthwhile. The history factor is high, the location is interesting, unmodeled and frankly the landscape is beautiful. Lackawanna County plays a critical role in 19th century history, in the least from an economic standpoint. And today, if people if know where this place is, its from the programme "the office" or former US Vice-President Joe Biden. Your work will be seen by people all over this country and the world. And they will think about it, talk about it and hopefully be able to virtually experience your version of it. Which none of us can know (except for the olden) first hand. This is what you bring to the table. It will take you several years buy yourself to put it together with all of your parts. You can create all the assets your self and have total control or, use DLC and make some compromises to save time.

I remember your effort from 4 years ago - this time its different and I want to encourage you. Its worth the effort-the personal satisfaction will be high.
No one will likely help put it together with you, I wish that wasn't true, but it is. It can be done alone, it can.
Share what you do along the way - if possible, do as I did and lay it out there as work in progress, build your fan base. Other like minded people will find you.
Warm regards and best wishes for your success.
MM

[Riptrack59]

Well I have decided to continue my work...but I can't guarantee how user friendly it will be when it's finished. If you need a specialty building made just let me know. I will be keeping an eye on your progress. Good Luck!

[minerman146]

Well I have decided to continue my work...but I can't guarantee how user friendly it will be when it's finished. If you need a specialty building made just let me know. I will be keeping an eye on your progress. Good Luck!

I need a whole specialty route! Lets say that I have thought about another project that includes your locale. I gotta finish this route first however.

[minerman146]

We're coming to the end of the line. Based on my numbering system, I plan on stopping at version 10. Right now we have 50 updates left which, when done, will put me at 263 updates. We call all agree - that is enough. Trust me, I don't want it to end but it must.
So from you - my loyal subscribers, I have many questions. Your answers will guide me in effectively using the remaining time on the route. Please respond to the poll and comment as needed to elaborate on your responses if you wish. I will be posting a link on Steam and OVSRails to get any users that might not be on RWA. There are over 2900 subscribers - I would like to hear from 10% of you to get a good reading on what you think. I have another 10 good miles in me. From what I survey as potential expansion points they all are grueling with buildings. I can do it.

So head on over to the Polls page and respond to the questions I posted. Hopefully, something good will come out of it!