SEPTA Refuses License to DTG

[JerryC]

Being still under nda, let's just say that I was "in the room" when DTG got their CSX licensing, and as i've said before, the rail company is fairly easy to work with in that regard. Prepare samples if your work, pick your logos and liveries, set up your payment agreement, and off you go. I don't know how things will go in this regard now that the place is under new management, but i'm hoping they will still be easy to work with in the future.

It seems to me to be logical that CSX is the route of choice for the new version. They have UP, BNSF, and NS routes in TSX. Isn't this the first dedicated route for this company?

To clarrify what I said earlier about Union Pacific, they wanted me to sign an agreement stating that I could have a freeware license - I could give away their logos on my products but I could not sell them. When I pointed out that there are several other companies that have licensing agreements to sell their logoed products, their reply was that they used to license for computer games and simulations, but they don't do it anymore. My take from it was they were saying "boy, you ain't got enough money to license from us."

[NYWhiskey]

Maybe companies in the U.S. would be more receptive to licensing their products if DTG had a permanent office in the U.S ?

Hell, if that was the case I'd give them the address to my brothers store in Midtown Manhattan around the block from Grand Central. I have a desk in the back office. New corporate headquarters.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Maybe companies in the U.S. would be more receptive to licensing their products if DTG had a permanent office in the U.S ?

Hell, if that was the case I'd give them the address to my brothers store in Midtown Manhattan around the block from Grand Central. I have a desk in the back office. New corporate headquarters.

again ...

No, seriously. I think it helps DTG to have a business representative in the US if they want to make a serious inroads in the US train simulation market given the more perceptive licensing issues with the US railroad carriers.

Serious train hobbyist like me want to transport themselves back to their youth, when the world was still in order.
The times when brandnames like Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Great Northern, Pennsylvania were still recognised as important.
The times of the little red caboose bobbing at the end of every train.
The times when the twice a day local still made a stop at the downtown depot.
The times when there was a water tower near the tracks to quench the thirst of the iron horses that stopped there on their way to the west.

Being nostalgic here, as probably the chance of steam/early diesel/passenger/boxcars-and-caboose rolling stock ever appearing as DLC largely depends on the current woes of licensing with the present day carriers that own these brandnames.

[JerryC]

No, no corporate HQ here, just a satellite office. It would also be beneficial to have folks here to do the research, folks who could rep the company and put boots on american locomotives, record sounds, be liasons between the railroads and the main office.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

No, no corporate HQ here, just a satellite office. It would also be beneficial to have folks here to do the research, folks who could rep the company and put boots on american locomotives, record sounds, be liasons between the railroads and the main office.

Exactly, since I gather from that trainsim.com thread debating the merits of Sand Patch as the launch route led me to the agree with their conclusion that the US market is where the big money could be made.

Also, did those providers that catered and still cater to the MSTS market ever acquire licenses? Or is their turnover too insignificant for the corporate bigheads to even consider? Many of these providers are one man back room businesses that probably don't pay taxes over their revenues.

But that licensing isn't about money, it is about projecting an image, protecting a brand name.
Still, it probably doesn't matter. If a TV network wants to reconstruct a train wreck for their daily news show, nondescript train models will do for the general public. 99.99% don't know how to distinguish one train from the other.
If there aren't any spectacular crash effects, they probably won't even bother. TS trains taking off into space certainly don't cut it for the drama department.

[buzz456]

Just modern day life. Up is down and down is up. Everyone thinks everything is out of control so they must attempt to control everything.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Just modern day life. Up is down and down is up. Everyone thinks everything is out of control so they must attempt to control everything.

True, and with the advance of social media and cameraphones in everybody's hand and drones in every car boot, any situation is out of direct control for the subjects/authorities involved.

Well, I can only hope DTG isn't put off by all of this and will expand on CSX Heavy Haul in due course.

[drivertime61]

Thanks for the replies and the interesting discussion. Too bad. Maybe it's just my "homer-ism" talking, but SEPTA Regional Rail commuter routes offer great variety. Heavy urban, to suburban to semi-rural. And much of SEPTA's trackage is also used to move a variety of freight traffic by CSX and others, with many local industries dotting the landscape.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Thanks for the replies and the interesting discussion. Too bad. Maybe it's just my "homer-ism" talking, but SEPTA Regional Rail commuter routes offer great variety. Heavy urban, to suburban to semi-rural. And much of SEPTA's trackage is also used to move a variety of freight traffic by CSX and others, with many local industries dotting the landscape.

Usually, our community finds a way to work around this kind of thing. The NJT license is secured I presume?

[NYWhiskey]

The NJT license is secured I presume?

I don't know about NJT, I work for the MTA and they encourage people to use their stuff. Sure don't know what's up with those companies out west.
http://web.mta.info/licensing/index.php



.

[drivertime61]

Thanks for the replies and the interesting discussion. Too bad. Maybe it's just my "homer-ism" talking, but SEPTA Regional Rail commuter routes offer great variety. Heavy urban, to suburban to semi-rural. And much of SEPTA's trackage is also used to move a variety of freight traffic by CSX and others, with many local industries dotting the landscape.

Usually, our community finds a way to work around this kind of thing. The NJT license is secured I presume?

I presume so. As indicated in the linked article, new NJT Arrow III EMU's and a new "NJC and Moorestown Lines" Route are on the way.
https://train-simulator.com/jersey-arrows/

[buzz456]

One can always do like was done with "The Race Track" and let the community fill in the blanks.

[katyusha454]

I wonder why model train manufacturers seem to have no difficulty getting pretty much whatever licenses they want but simulation companies have to jump through all these weird and pointless hoops and can't even get a license half the time.

[JerryC]

For one, running a basement model train layout won't teach you the basics of actually running a train. And it is a far larger market, so that is more licensing $$ for the licensors. With a simulation, you can get closer to actually learning to run a locomotive, so that makes the companies nervous I think.

Also, I think the railroad companies, who's goal is the bottom line in the black, have a hard time grasping the tangibility of licensing simulations. When I went to Operation Lifesaver, it took about three phone calls and lots of photos before they could even grasp that someone wanted to put their logos in a video game.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

For one, running a basement model train layout won't teach you the basics of actually running a train. And it is a far larger market, so that is more licensing $$ for the licensors. With a simulation, you can get closer to actually learning to run a locomotive, so that makes the companies nervous I think.

Also, I think the railroad companies, who's goal is the bottom line in the black, have a hard time grasping the tangibility of licensing simulations. When I went to Operation Lifesaver, it took about three phone calls and lots of photos before they could even grasp that someone wanted to put their logos in a video game.

Probably true, given that most operation manuals, employee timetables, accurate track plans and detailed drawings showing access to facilities have been taken offline long ago. Some unions still leak some of this stuff, so getting a recent timetable or rulebook is still possible.

Regarding scale models: these are tactile, beautiful, collectible, sometimes valuable and certainly visible. Computer simulation is little more than electrons bent into shapes, and it fades to nothing as soon as the power if switched off.
There is little to present to a railroad marketing official, not even a souvenir model for his office ... (small 'bribes' probably help a lot ....)

"video game'' Jerry said, and that is probably the crux here. One needs to present a serious simulator, not a game for kids. Kids probably aren't into model railroading anymore these days, their dads probably also not given how expensive the hobby has become. Perhaps granddad still has a layout in the attic, basement or garage, Junior is only interested in seeing how fast the trains can go before crashing and has no eye for the love and dedication gramps has put into his little dream world ....

But then a serious simulator perhaps scares the marketing people even more than a game, except when the marketing rep is a player himself?