Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby buzz456 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:54 pm

GSkid wrote:Thanks for the info Buzz!

With my i7-4510u and GTX 850M on that test I get...

DP 25 and 24
SP 15 and 14

I'm somewhat shocked, but ultimately not surprised. Cuz I recall people with fairly beefy desktop cards getting only surprisingly modest increases in fps on the most demanding routes. Clearly this sim is inefficient, cuz the law of diminishing returns is very much at play here. To be fair to DTG, none of the modern train sims see a dramatic increase in fps with CPU and GPU upgrades like we clearly see in games like GTA V and others. Hopefully TSW will change that.

I usually have shadows turned off. They aren't important enough to me to sacrifice my frame rate. If I do have them on, I prefer them at max... but find the shadow draw-in as you roll down the tracks annoying. Every once in long while when I'm in the mood to see super high frame rates, I'll turn dynamic lighting off.

Your 180W power supply sounds about right in line with many gaming laptops in that range, although some models like the HP Omen offer a 230W power supply.



This is gonna be a long process of pros and cons of each laptop maker's rigs. I'm not in any hurry. I'll take my time. !!*ok*!!


Which are you taking about getting your FR? Using the FXAA+1x2 or the 3x3?
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby GSkid » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:40 pm

buzz456 wrote:
Which are you taking about getting your FR? Using the FXAA+1x2 or the 3x3?


Those frame rates are with 1x2. With 3x3 I get...

DP 7 and 7
SP 7 and 6

I'm going by the GeForce FPS counter and not the in-sim one. They match up pretty much the same, but the GeForce counter is bigger and easier to read than the in-sim counter.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby buzz456 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:43 am

Thanks for that info. Now you have me messing around with my pc to see how it compares.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby Ericmopar » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:30 pm

I can say this now that I've had time to run my GTX 1070 for a bit.
The 1070 only runs at about 50% most of the time, even with 2x2SSAA on and sliders full right.
The problem for us isn't GPU power anymore, it's CPUs occasionally bottlenecking the sim.
I've figured out that shadows and water affect the CPU much more than the GPU, so I'm guessing that's the Phys-X part of the sim.
I wonder how it would run, if we could actually get the Phys-X to run on the GPU instead? The Nvidia controls won't force the Phys-X over to the GPU last time I checked.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby GSkid » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:55 pm

50% on the 1070 in 2x2? What about in 3x3?!?! I'm a little surprised it would use so little of the GPU.

I didn't know this sim was using physx, let alone the CPU based version. It's odd since they emphasize the fact that this sim was made with Nvidia as their main GPU platform in mind.

After doing a decent amount of research, Sager gaming laptops are currently in the lead when it comes to which laptop brand I'm looking at.

I'm looking at one of their laptops with the current specs....



6th Gen Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ

17.3" G-SYNC Full HD 1920 x 1080 IPS Matte

Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 8GB

16GB DDR4 at 2400MHz

250GB SanDisk X400 M.2 SSD + 1TB 7200rpm HDD

Intel Wireless-AC 8260 + Bluetooth

Windows® 10 Home 64-Bit Edition
Full color illuminated keyboard
IC-Diamond Thermal Compound
30 days No Dead Pixel Guarantee
ESS SABRE HiFi audio DAC


I might bump up the SSD to a 500GB drive. Not for sure. I'm also wondering if I should stick with the San Disk brand or bump up to the Samsung for about $20-$25 more. Samsung is the #1 seller of SSDs. The specs of both brands aren't drastically different.

I'm really glad it has an Intel wireless chip set. I've read horror stories online about the wireless chip set from Killer Networking. That it drops communication with wifi routers a lot and that the Intel one does not.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby Ericmopar » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:33 pm

Another LAN chipset to watch out for is Broadcom. I've had all kinds of problems with their stuff.
I've got Intel for LAN on my MSI motherboard and it's never once caused a problem in 3 and a half years of heavy use. 82579V Gigabit Network.

I'd go for the 500GB drive to.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands.....

Unread postby GSkid » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:36 pm

Well this is an update....

So I was originally going to get a Sager laptop with a i7-6700K, a GTX 1080 and 4K display w/G-Sync. Having a G-Sync display is very important to me. I changed my mind after hearing how hot the laptop gets. It would have needed some tweaking (undervolting) to cool it down, but it still would have run a bit on the toasty side even after that. But another major factor that bothered me was how loud the fans get on it relative to some of it's rival's laptops.

So I was looking at an MSI laptop wth a i7-6820HK, GTX 1080 and a 4K G-Sync display. It's a bit less powerful on the CPU side compared to the 6700K, but it too is unlocked and people have gotten 4GHz and even higher out of it. It also runs cooler and is 5db to 8db quieter on average than the Sager. I was gonna get it in the next couple weeks after the taxes on the sale of my house were figured out. I was also holding off until the new blazing fast Samsung 960 Pro SSDs became available.

Well those new SSDs just because available in the last week or so and I was ready to purchase..... only to find out that the MSI laptop model I wanted was unavailable. I live chatted with the sales team and they said it was gone because it was EOL (End Of Life) and when they were gone, they are gone (crazy since this laptop only came out in August I believe **!!bang!!** ). I asked if there was an equivalent spec replacement coming out and they said they don't know of one at this time.

They did point me to the exact same laptop that just has a higher configuration. Well the higher config forces you to choose between 48GB or 64GB of RAM...... nothing lower. I only need 16GB max personally. It comes with 2 x 512GB SSDs in Raid 0 config. Replacing them with Samsungs SSDs hardly gave me a price break credit for the original SSDs. Long story short.... buying this config would have been $800 more than the one I was gonna get. Sorry.... I just can't stomach that kind of an increase considering I'm being forced to pay for a boatload of extra RAM and SSDs that I don't want or need... and obviously at exorbitant prices for them all.

So since I don't want to wait around for a possible similar spec replacement from MSI, I was gonna pull the trigger and get the Sager. But I asked Sager one question that ended up killing the purchase from them as well. I knew the 3K 120Hz display was TN technology, so I was gonna get their 4K 60Hz display thinking it was using IPS or a similar display technology. TN displays have less input lag than other display technologies.... but at the cost of worse color reproduction and viewing angles. But while MSI's 4K display was IPS, the Sager's 4K was a TN display. That killed it right there for me.

So I decided to purchase an interim laptop that more than gets me by for now in preparation for TSW's release. I will still get a powerhouse laptop in the future with all the bells and whistles I want. Likely in a year or so. By then...Nvidia's true generational successor to the Maxwell architecture called Volta (the current Pascal architecture in the 10-series cards are more of a major tweak of Maxwell than a true generational architecture advance) will be out and I can get a laptop based on it.

So... thanks to the good tech site reviews, PC magazine's editor's choice award for it's great bang for the buck gaming laptop......and cuz of it's limited time $300 price break that ends on Dec. 3rd..... I decided to pull the trigger and get HP's best spec'ed gaming laptop... the Omen 17-w151nr for $1500 (normally $1800). Certainly cheaper than the $4000 I was gonna spend. I'll spend that on my next laptop.

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Here are the specs....

Intel i7-6700HQ quad-core (2.6GHz base/3.5GHz turbo)
Nvidia GTX 1070 w/8GB GDDR5
16GB DDR4 RAM
512 GB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
17.3-inch 4K UHD 60Hz IPS display with G-Sync


What sucks is that all the pre-release review units sent out to the tech websites had a 2TB hard drive added. Either they changed their mind or simply got rid of it to bring down the cost on their GTX 1070-based unit. At least the specs page on the one I bought currently doesn't show a hard drive included. I'm hoping it's a typo and it does have a hard drive after all. The lower config versions (with a GTX 960M or 965M) I think have a 128GB or 256GB SSD + a 1TB or 2TB hard drive. So as far as I know... I can't upgrade anything except the RAM. The SSD is likely soldered to the MOBO and I can't add an HDD except for an external one for backups.

So while it's not the GTX 1080 I wanted to get, I''ll get a beast of a laptop next time around. The GTX 1070 is Nvidia's 2nd most powerful card with the 1080 being roughly 30% more powerful than it.... at a price premium. They both have the exact same GPU chip... only that the 1070 has some of it's CUDA cores disabled and uses GGDR5 instead of the 1080's GDDR5X memory. And at $1500.....it's pretty much a steal for a laptop of these specs. I used the $300 in savings towards a 3 year extended warranty on it.

I'll do the same TS2017 test as before once I get it all setup and post the results. I'm very busy in life right now, so it may take at least a week or two to get around to it. *!greengrin!*
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby GSkid » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm

Well I have the new laptop. The thing is fast and the 4K screen on it is gorgeous. Here are my results of my original test on the new laptop. I turned off G-Sync for this test and also did 4K res results too....

Donner Pass

In-Cab: 72fps(1080p)/40fps(4K)
Outside: 70fps(1080p)/39fps(4K)

Stevens Pass

In-Cab: 17fps(1080p)/16fps(4K)
Outside: 13fps(1080p)/15fps(4K)

What's really nice about 4K res is that it smooths out jaggies even more. Looks nice and pretty. !!*ok*!!
EMD 2-strokes rule! My all time favorite: SD45X also love the SD40-2/SD40T-2/SD45-2/SD45T-2/DD35A/DDA40X/SD70ACe/SD80ACe

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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby NStrains » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Wow I guess Stevens Pass really is that bad of a hog...
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby trev123 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:20 pm

GSkid wrote:Well I have the new laptop. The thing is fast and the 4K screen on it is gorgeous. Here are my results of my original test on the new laptop. I turned off G-Sync for this test and also did 4K res results too....

Donner Pass

In-Cab: 72fps(1080p)/40fps(4K)
Outside: 70fps(1080p)/39fps(4K)

Stevens Pass

In-Cab: 17fps(1080p)/16fps(4K)
Outside: 13fps(1080p)/15fps(4K)

What's really nice about 4K res is that it smooths out jaggies even more. Looks nice and pretty. !!*ok*!!


What were your in game settings ?
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby GSkid » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:06 pm

trev123 wrote:What were your in game settings ?


It's on the first page of this thread but here it is again.....

Test parameter settings: 1920X1080 resolution : Full Screen : Dynamic Lighting-ON : Dynamic Clouds-OFF : FXAA+1x2 SSAA : Anisotropic x8 : All sliders to MAX : Procedural Flora-OFF : Adaptive Bloom-OFF : Depth of Field-ON : Headlight Flares-OFF

Consist: "SD40-2 Mixed Freight" (4 UP SD40-2s on the front, 2 at the rear)

Weather: Summer-Clear-11AM

Donner Pass: Quick Drive - Truckee Yard to Roseville yard.

Stevens Pass: Quick Drive : Eastbound-Delta Yard to Wenatchee 122 mi (the frame rate killer)

Simply report the framerate in cab when it loads up and then the frame rate in the outside view #1. Don't move the camera in either case and allow 10-15 seconds for all objects to load and the framerate to stabilize before taking a fps reading.


And to NStrains......

Yes it is a hog in that particular part of the route (Delta Yard). That's why I call it the frame rate killer and why I recommend it to people for stress testing their video cards in this sim. *!twisted!* I've yet to see a video card that runs it decently with the parameters I listed or in general. The GTX 1080 is 30% more powerful than my GTX 1070 and I highly doubt it would do much better. Maybe a couple frames at the most.

This is my first system with G-Sync and I noticed when it's enabled, it doesn't allow frame rates above 60fps...at least in this sim anyways. So I turned it off for this particular test so that nothing was holding it back. G-Sync is pretty nice though and I have it always turned on otherwise. *!greengrin!*

UPDATE: I did a test on Cajon Pass and noticed that G-Sync added some slight micro-stutters here and there, but no tearing. With G-Sync off, some tearing.... but no stutters for the most part. It will be interesting to see how G-Sync performs in other games.

UPDATE #2: I think I pretty much solved the micro-stutter problem with G-Sync enabled. Using a frame limiter has all but eliminated it. In TS2017 I simply capped it at 30fps and now it's nice and smooth and no tearing. I tired it out in Borderlands 2 and the same results. !!*ok*!!
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby trev123 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:01 pm

Your Stevens Pass FPS seem rather low. I get low 30s on that and Donner Pass low 40s. My in game settings are all sliders hard right, all effects on and running FXAA+8xMSAA. I have not noticed any real difference increasing the FXAA values other than dropping the FPS. I'm more than happy with my settings.
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby GSkid » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:38 pm

Well I seem to be having problems with Trainz 12 on my new laptop. It wants to shrink down to a small window in the top left-hand corner of my screen no matter what res I try in-game or what res I set my laptop at. I've tried both windowed and full screen modes. I got it to fill the screen once, but while visually it was full screen, it responds only to the controls and on-creen buttons as if it's still in the small window to the top-left. So I feel like I'm feeling in the dark until I come across a button I may want to press.

It works in windowed mode.... if I want to squint at this tiny little window on my big screen. It looks ridiculous playing that way. I also noticed that.... unlike my other laptops, the sim won't play in DirectX mode. It gives me an error without launching beyond the Trainz launcher screen. I have to choose OpenGL to get it to boot into the actual sim. But if I have this shrinking of the screen problem, then what's the point?!?!?

I don't know if it's because the sim doesn't like the GTX 1070 or this 4K display or BOTH. Any help would be appreciated... otherwise I guess I'll have to only play it on my GTX 850M laptop. **!!bang!!**

To trev123....

It's low fps cuz my test was using SSAA. You are using FXAA..... which is much less demanding on the hardware than SSAA. That's why you have higher fps on it. SSAA looks way better to my eyes...at the price of lower fps numbers.
EMD 2-strokes rule! My all time favorite: SD45X also love the SD40-2/SD40T-2/SD45-2/SD45T-2/DD35A/DDA40X/SD70ACe/SD80ACe

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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby peterhayes » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:22 pm

GSkid
This is my first system with G-Sync and I noticed when it's enabled, it doesn't allow frame rates above 60fps...at least in this sim anyways. So I turned it off for this particular test so that nothing was holding it back. G-Sync is pretty nice though and I have it always turned on otherwise.

GSync should allow any frame rate (game dependant) usually up to the monitor resolution - I see up to 144 fps in some games on a 144Hz monitor (Free Sync doesn't).

This is my first system with G-Sync and I noticed when it's enabled, it doesn't allow frame rates above 60fps...at least in this sim anyways. So I turned it off for this particular test so that nothing was holding it back. G-Sync is pretty nice though and I have it always turned on otherwise

Not using GSync is counter productive as it eliminates any lag in the video card and displays an image as soon as it receives unlike ordinary monitors.
FORGET FPS look for smooth video with no stuttering and no tearing, just ensure that any fps counter does not vary too much. FPS is only a rough indicator as to what is going on between the cpu gpu and monitor. It can be smooth at 15 fps and jerky at 120 fps, so its smooth that you need to see.

UPDATE: I did a test on Cajon Pass and noticed that G-Sync added some slight micro-stutters here and there, but no tearing. With G-Sync off, some tearing.... but no stutters for the most part. It will be interesting to see how G-Sync performs in other games.

That's strange GSync usually eliminates stuttering (plus there is no vsync stutter) due video card lag.

Have you tried using "FAST SYNC" in the NVidia control panel?
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Re: Need advice on reliable gaming laptop brands (UPDATED).....

Unread postby OregonRider » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:28 am

i want a good laptop for ts but not too terribly expensive any suggestions?
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