Understanding Cajon Pass traffic?

[Toripony]

I have been tinkering around with the Cajon Pass route since I first got Rail Simulator hoping to someday enhance it for more activities. I know there are things missing that could add some fun.

My question today is not about infrastructure though... it's about the traffic... UP vs BNSF. Since I began learning in this trainsimming community about three years ago I have been led to believe that UP and BNSF are fierce competitors who don't like to share right-of-ways or help each other in any way. However, everywere I look on the Web I find pictures of BNSF trains on the UP track over Cajon Pass. On Google Earth, you actually see trains parked and waiting in the big crossovers (which EA Games left out) from the UP double track over to that "highline" track up the hill. I found those same situations in photographs on the web also. Before this I had the impression one line was UP and the other was BNSF and never the two shall cross!

Can anyone clarify for me just what the real traffic currents/rights/paths are out there??? I'm confused. The problem is I don't know exactly how to incorporate that highline track and exactly what traffic will flow over those crossovers. Also, I am trying to create some "protofantasy" passenger traffic on the route (hint: it's got a high-speed tunnel!) which is almost nonexistent in the route's present condition... but there IS a hint of it. Can anyone fill me in on just what IS going over that route? I'm guessing one or two Amtraks a day maybe???

Thanks guys!
Tori
P.S. Don't expect any release on this work anytime soon (or at all?); it's just something I tinker with from time to time.

[thecanadianrail]

as i recall, BNSF owns the line and UP has trackage rights over it that carry back to the Santa Fe days. correct me if i am wrong.

[kin3]

I do not know about the specifics but I believe they make a unit train, a train that cannot be broken up until it reaches it's destination, and when changing railroads they just change crews. So you see foreign equipment on different railroads. I know that track sharing agreements are made just like any company would. If it benefits both parties then they agree to do it.

[Chessie8638]

BNSF owns their track, UP has trackage rights over. UP crews operate over the BNSF tracks. Also BNSF can operate on UP tracks. UP can operate all the way into LA since the tracks off of Cajon are a gateway into the Port of Long Beach.

The agreement goes back to 1921:

"1921, the Union Pacific gained a controlling interest in the Los Angeles & Salt Lake. The LASL trackage rights were transferred to the UP, which then gained access through Cajon Pass, and the agreement is still in effect." - http://www.rgusrail.com/cacajon.html

"In 1996, the Union Pacific merged with Southern Pacific. The Palmdale Cutoff was then rolled into the Union Pacific and ATSF trackage agreement. Currently, both the Union Pacific and BNSF have joint trackage rights throughout the Pass." - http://www.rgusrail.com/cacajon.html
IE UP can operate over BNSF and BNSF can operate over the Palmdale Cutoff (UP).

As of note trains on the UP's Palmdale Cutoff are going Northbound or Southbound.

Links:
http://www.trainmaster.ch/XC-10-2.htm
http://www.trainmaster.ch/XC-10-1.htm
http://www.trainmaster.ch/cajon-01.htm
http://www.rgusrail.com/cacajon.html

[UPSD70ACe]

Sweet thanks for the helpful info on this Route,Just wish the RW2 Route went to Bakersfield from Mojave Yard.

[Toripony]

Thanks, Chessie, that really clears it up for me!

[Toripony]

Sweet thanks for the helpful info on this Route,Just wish the RW2 Route went to Bakersfield from Mojave Yard.

I looked at that... it's a l-o-o-o-o-n-g way to go. I could see laying out most of the track in a month or so but then there's the decorating part. I don't plan to make a project out of this, because my plate is full. But I am putting in some sidings and replacing some loaders to see if I can expand the route's variety. There are whole branches/spurs missing. One has at least 3 other huge industries on it including a mine. At the Victorville cement plant there is supposed to be another yard and a big storage loop which could all serve as an Interchange with a local switcher serving that branch line doing the loading work.
The Summit is supposed to be 4 tracks for roughly a mile with a big crossover to the "high track". LOTS of traffic there! These are the kinds of things I've done (and lost and done and lost, lol). IF in a year or so I find the time, I might then try to put together a "Cajon Pass 2012" or something like that, lol.

I've heard various folks mention they had done extensions on this route, but I don't think I have ever seen one. Were any ever released/shared?

Tori
Btw, I also think RSC should retexture some of that default stuff that is a total blur at 200 yards. It really cheapens the look of the route.

[micaelcorleone]

Tori, you also talked about tunnels.
The two tunnels which can be found on the line aren't any longer.
They were destroyed and the earth was moved away so that there is a cutout now.
I think they did it because of a third track they layed (?).

Maybe there should be an improved version of the Pass for our beloved game.
EDIT: Oh I saw you're thinking about a new version Tori. Great.

[Trainguy76]

Hiya Tori, I had started a project a while ago about updating the Cajon pass and extending to Los Angeles. Unfortunately the route got so massively detailed it would crash no matter what I tried. So I scrapped it, and started again. I think I can salvage the track*, and I have already brought the Pass up to date with track. (Not the signals yet though)

*Track includes, West Colton, and more of the San Bernardino yard.

[Toripony]

Hiya Tori, I had started a project a while ago about updating the Cajon pass and extending to Los Angeles. Unfortunately the route got so massively detailed it would crash no matter what I tried. So I scrapped it, and started again. I think I can salvage the track*, and I have already brought the Pass up to date with track. (Not the signals yet though)

*Track includes, West Colton, and more of the San Bernardino yard.

Yes, this is one of the projects I remember. If it's any consolation, my COA has become a nightmare to work on due to editormode crashes. The more track I add to the route, the worse it seems to get. It forces me to be more creative and careful in controlling my development environment. For example, I now do track editing with graphics settings on low and scenery items set to 1. The fans in my laptop like me better now, too!

Someday when you have time to spare, could I get a copy of your version to check out and tinker with? All I would want is the route folder (from Content). NO hurry... like.... next year, perhaps. I am trying to get COA beta 4 out the door right now and am already starting to plan beta 5. Besides, I owe the UP fans some time spent working on my Bailey Yard/Kearney project. That one was supposed to be fast-tracked but ended up side-tracked for the past 2 months.

I only started messing with the Cajon because I wanted to run the ICE train across it. Now, I guess I would use the Accela repaint I found on one of the DLC trains (I forget right now which DLC it requires). I've learned that even HST's lose speed on an 8 mile 3% grade!

Tori

[buzz456]

Everybody talking here is aware that Otto and Tom did a route with the Palmdale cutoff included. The scenery is pretty sparse but it would be the beginning for someone.
Buzz

[Trainguy76]

The southern part of that route isn't very accurate track-wise. Tom still did a good job though.

[Toripony]

Right now I'm basing my tinkering on the one that ?Marc? redid with ScaleRail tracks. Downloaded it from his site (I think, lol).

I guess I would have to download this other revised version from Otto's server? Lost that link some time back.

Tori

[JimM]

I do not know about the specifics but I believe they make a unit train, a train that cannot be broken up until it reaches it's destination, and when changing railroads they just change crews. So you see foreign equipment on different railroads. I know that track sharing agreements are made just like any company would. If it benefits both parties then they agree to do it.

That happens here in NY with CN trains that come through....although they not necessarily unit trains, just are just standard mixed freights. Up north, in Massena, NY, there's a crew change, and the CSX guys take it from there....same thing in reverse when one is going back.

Jim

[buzz456]

Tory,
Here you go.
http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rw-downloads/


Buzz