Majestic Falls route: The little coal loader that can't

[OldProf]

I'm working on a scenario for the Majestic Falls route that includes loading some hoppers with coal . . . or not, in fact. In the scenario editor, two side-by-side coal loaders are clearly visible on the 2D map, correctly placed along track markers; neither of the loaders, however, actually works.

Let me explain with the use of visual aids (screen shots taken within the route editor):

Here's what the location of the coal loaders looks like in the 2D map, where each of those blue circles would typically indicate the presence of a loader:


===================================
Here's a view of the same area in 3D view: the track markers that allow the loaders to work are visible in yellow, but there's no gizmo to indicate the presence of a loader. Note also that a coal loader is present in the assets fly-out (labeled StP because it comes from the Stevens Pass route's assets).


===================================
This is the gizmo that appears after clicking the coal loader in the assets flyer:



I could not get this gizmo to stick in place, so I could not click or double-click it to pull up a properties box. Not being a route maker, perhaps I was doing something wrong.
===================================
However, I also tried selecting Cement loader from the fly-out and this appeared:



Aside from the fact that this object looks like an unloader rather than a loader, it did appear and could be clicked to set its properties.
===================================
I'm hoping that someone with more expertise with placing loaders in routes and making them functional can tell me what's going on here. Again, what puzzles me is that although the loaders show up in the scenario editor and can be selected within the loading/unloading instruction, coal hoppers cannot actually be loaded using them.

By the way, I'm not intending to make a player load a cut of hoppers; I want an AI train to be doing that as the player drives by and, yes, all of that should be workable within a scenario.

Hoping for help!

[McFisty]

Interestingly enough, I've converted all the loading points on Majestic Falls to be able to load coal. The reason why they don't load coal even though they say coal loading point is because they are assets from Horseshoe Curve meant for load steam engines. So what I did was modify those assets to dispense coal for freight and then replaced them in the track files. For the ones that I couldn't do that with I created a HSC coal tower that doesn't dispense anything and then used JBFried's invisible loading points. I'm more than willing to share what I did, but I'm not really all that familiar with what I'm allowed to give out. I think I'd be able to share the assets since the ones I created are referenced back to the originals with the coal point from the UK Assets pack, but I'm not sure I could distribute the modified track file.

[XDriver]

I'm going to throw this out there for starters. Could it be possible that you may not have the proper assets in your inventory to get the loader/unloader to work?
I noticed there are a lot of Stevens Pass assets with this route.

[OldProf]

I'm going to throw this out there for starters. Could it be possible that you may not have the proper assets in your inventory to get the loader/unloader to work?
I noticed there are a lot of Stevens Pass assets with this route.

No, that is not possible. Stevens Pass is a required DLC package for Majestic Falls and I would not have even subscribed to it if I did not have Stevens Pass. Good grief!

[OldProf]

Interestingly enough, I've converted all the loading points on Majestic Falls to be able to load coal. The reason why they don't load coal even though they say coal loading point is because they are assets from Horseshoe Curve meant for load steam engines. So what I did was modify those assets to dispense coal for freight and then replaced them in the track files. For the ones that I couldn't do that with I created a HSC coal tower that doesn't dispense anything and then used JBFried's invisible loading points. I'm more than willing to share what I did, but I'm not really all that familiar with what I'm allowed to give out. I think I'd be able to share the assets since the ones I created are referenced back to the originals with the coal point from the UK Assets pack, but I'm not sure I could distribute the modified track file.

Good for you! I've been trying to communicate with LtBligh, the nickname of the route's maker, through messages at Steam Workshop. According to a thread at TrainSim, his real name is "Mark Howarth (Mark Judith)", but I haven't found him on that or this forum. If I do find a means of communication, I'll let you know.

I've also looked at "loaders" of other kinds on the route. There are two working woodchip loaders at Dunbar Lake, which also features a "mud loader" and a "water wagon". I have no idea what type of car might be used to carry mud (or why), and what purpose the water wagon might serve. The most desirable loader for this route would handle logs and I recall the presence of log loaders, which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, on another route, but that handled skeleton log cars and this route uses bulkhead flatcars to haul timber.

[Handbrake]

Hi,
Majestic was my first attempt at creating a U.S. route unfortunately I have not had the pleasure of visiting any railroads in the states and as a result I'm not that well clued up how things work.
The route was a learning curve which still continues, as a result there are a few things which certainly could have been better. My attempt at free roam scenario creation was a disaster which was fixed by a member of the community (Robbit). The way I have used markers was not the best and signalling in yards is a pain. I used ground signals hidden below ground (hidden because I thought that in reality signals would not be used in these areas) I did this so that AI would work to simulate switching moves in and around the yard. This is also the reason for two markers being placed on one siding, so that AI switchers would be able to move half way up the yard instead of having to travel the whole length of the track. Regards the coal loaders, these locomotive loaders, as mentioned, won't load wagons unfortunately. I used them in a effort to represent car loaders within the confines of using the three routes and never intended for them to actually load the cars, the thought of loading 20-40 cars was a bit daunting! The marker has to be linked to the track to place the asset so that is why the markers are there. On the Bonnie Branch there was nothing in either of the three routes assets used to simulate the loading of lumber or logs. The mud loading track was a result of some scenarios I had made for the route which involved using Russian Dump cars, these looked similar to some I had seen on a video of a logging line in the U.S. which was removing mud from what I presume were land slips on the line. I had imagined that new roadways and work on a future rail extension were being built in the area and spoil was being brought to the railhead, loaded into the dump cars at Dunham Lake & Forbes and sent onward to Lockwood open pit for unloading. This pit is nearing the end of production in the not to distant future and will become a waste management area. So as a result there is an unloader at Lockwood for these cars. This system did work but since uploading it stopped! The water tanker at Bonnie was placed there as a last minute idea. Thinking that the Bonnie Branch may well be a popular place to run the consolidation or shays on special steam days I thought it may be interesting to at least take on water from a roadside tanker as all the steam facilities have long since vanished! So there is a water tower hidden below ground the marker being near the water tanker. I didn't have the Connie or the shays, couldn't afford them at the time and I must admit I forgot to test the facility and I have since found out that the track marker name must correspond with the unloader/loader link name.
Another failure on my part was to try and finalise the route with a number of fixes including the donated quick drive. I thought I had done the right steps but evidently didn't and the route styed as it was but finalised!

I hope this clears up some of the odd things on the route and hope they don't spoil your enjoyment of it.

Mark.

[dejoh]

First and foremost, I enjoy the route you created immensely. For not knowing the American landscape, You did a "spot on" job. Would really like to see some more mileage added.
Possibly a refinery with tank storage or an industrial park. Again, thanks for the fine route. The detail is incredible.

[OldProf]

Hello, Mark.
Thanks to your delightful comments, I now understand Majestic Falls much better and apologize for getting upset because the coal loaders don't work. I didn't really want the player to load hoppers, an activity I found interesting only the first time I tried it and now assign to AI engineers, who don't seem to ever get bored.

Your use of signals hidden underground is very helpful in scenarios, allowing AI and RI (real intelligence, not Rock Island) engineers to operate within the same yard area -- Michael Stephan employed underground signals on the VNHRR to great effect and other route developers should give them a try.

In regard to track markers, my preference favors a very short marker tucked in at one end of a siding that allows scenario makers to know what the route maker wanted as a name for that siding, but also lets scenario makers place markers that suit their ideas. Again, the VNHRR features such markers, as do a few other independent routes, but I've yet to find a commercial route with anything other than end-to-end siding markers. True, stopping points can be placed along these to guide the player to a particular point along the siding, but AI trains just plow right through them at the best of times; at the worst of times, they just stop nearby and scratch their boilers or don't move at all or crash.

As I've worked on scenarios for your route, I've often wished for a descriptive manual that would tell me more about its history -- I appreciate that you've provided some of that. Majestic Falls is my favorite kind of route: all freight and lots of switching possibilities. Thanks for making it.

[Handbrake]

Thanks Tom & dejoh
Majestic does have a history Tom I'll send it to you (on a different PC at the moment, the file isn't on here)
Regards the signals in yards, yes they are there for the AI crews but the RI crews get a few SPADS and they do complain on Steam because they don't get good 'scores' etc.
The problem with my idea for shorter siding markers is that whole player train sometimes doesn't fit in the marked area and this in turn causes failed uncouple/couple command issues?

Scenario writing isn't my strong point and I tended to not use 'couple to' commands (because they didn't always work) running the scenario as one would with a model railroad, telling the player to
"go couple to the loaded cars in siding X" in the F1 instructions and pop ups. I didn't bother about scores and the like but many TS engineers seemed to and were very annoyed at my scenario attempts.


I get a lot of failed events on other authors scenarios even the DTG and pay ware ones on other routes so it isn't always down to the author, sometimes it is just bugs I think but the author gets loads of complaints either way!
For future creations I was considering the marker system you mention but you can bet there will be a book of complaints for the extra hard work scenario writers have to put in

I did create the route thinking how I would run it, which was somewhat short sighted. I envisaged the route to be located in Georgia/Virginia and to be operated with second hand beat up locos and cars from the Jessie James re skin stable although it would have been nice to have had some weathered rusty monsters with a Majestic road name. Of course everyone has their own interpretations of how things should be which has made for some great scenarios on workshop and I'd like to thank all those who have created them.

Extending the route would mean a new second version alongside the original, not sure if that would be a good thing or not as any envisaged extension wouldn't be that big TBH. I'm working on something else now, on and off, so I'll see how that pans out, if it is any good I'll upload it.

Mark