Baldwin RF-16

[jpetersjr]

Sounds great, question is though, when it's finished how will I get the new updated one, because I no longer have that old email anymore, it was hacked and then deleted.

I have a new email now.


Since I hate using the hud and having to use it actually takes out of the driving experience.

[CSX5202]

Well, I do hope that the RF-16's that are still around get fixed up one day. It would just require rebuilding the engines (if not just fabricating new diesels). As well as today's modern improvements, such as better materials, and better turbochargers.

[Antwerp]

Gaaaah!
You haven't got a copy?

*Whistling*

[Chacal]

Great!
They don't seem to have deteriorated further.
Thanks!

[bpetit]

Antwerp, I figured someone had kept a copy :o.

It's nice to see them though. I forget which one is in better shape.

[Antwerp]

I forget which one is in better shape.

Make a decision. One with a Engine Failure and the other with a grounded Traction Motor. Couldn't tell you which is which.

[BNSFdude]

Its not the eyes that do the prying. Both units have had parts disappear into the black market.

[Fleegle411]

The locos were hidden after number boards, builder plates, and several other parts were stolen off of the locomotive by "railfans" and ever since the 2 engines have been shut up like that. Can't say I really blame the owner for that.

[The_Garbear]

I've been doing some digging around and the story behind those two remaining RF16s is actually pretty interesting. Supposedly they're willed to a museum when the owner of the E&LS dies.

[Chacal]

Around Christmas 2011, when I was looking into building this model in Railworks, I exchanged e-mails with Jay Winn.

He's the author of these two articles on the Bridge Line Historical Society's web site:
http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/RidingSharks.html
http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/BaldwinSharks.html

Also he published this article in the TRP Magazine (The Railroad Press), issue # 80, in which he explains how he came to design the iconic livery for the two D&H sharks:

SHARK PAINT STORY First Draft 9/30/08

From 1969 thru about 1980 I owned and operated a custom model shop called “The Windea Shops”. My specialties were custom painting and building of model railroad locomotives.

In 1974 I was contacted by the D&H through an intermediary, one Roger Pugh, who was both a railfan and a personal friend. Roger said he had a task for me to perform at the request of his friends in the D&H management. Roger advised me that the D&H had acquired a pair of old RF16 Baldwin Shark nose diesels (the first I had heard of it) and were having discussions on just how to paint them D&H. The people who were responsible for the selection of a paint scheme were bogged down and Roger had suggested a visual aid in the form of painted models. The idea was a hit and subsequently, Roger had promised his contacts at the D&H that he could get me to produce a couple of different proposed paint schemes on model locomotives in time for the decision date in about 2 weeks. I was surprised at the short timeline and Roger advised me that the Sharks were already on the property at Colonie Shops, undergoing mechanical checks and servicing and it was the desire of management to get them into service as soon as possible. That meant they needed to be painted immediately after the servicing was complete in an estimated 2 weeks

The assignment seemed deceptively simple… Come up with a couple of schemes for the railroad’s consideration using standard D&H logos, lettering styles and colors. As with any “simple” project there were a number of problems that surfaced right away.

My first problem was where to get sharknose models to paint. I had only one Model Power Products HO scale shark in house and after rummaging around in the shop managed to find a very old Tyco/Mantua shark model. The model power shark was fairly accurate and the mantua model was much cruder from a detail perspective and less accurate. I started a search for a source for more MP sharks and then focused on probable schemes.

I started by reviewing past iterations of D&H standard diesel paint schemes that I knew about. In somewhat chronological order there were:
1. Solid black with yellow pinstripes in the form of a squared circle on the cab sides with yellow lettering and numbers.
2. Then the original scheme evolved with the addition of yellow herringbone stripes on each end.
3. Then came the famous yellow lightning stripe with blue over gray, with blue lettering and numbers.
4. Then there were the Alco PA’s with their D&H “Santa Fe Heritage” scheme. The very striking Santa Fe warbonnet adapted to D&H with the blue substituted for red.

The second problem was of course that the D&H never had any cab units prior to the Alco PA’s and the hood unit schemes were more difficult to adapt.

Then thinking about the PA’s with their Santa Fe heritage adaptation, I wondered if there was a possibility of a NYC heritage adaptation using the famous NYC lightning stripe style with D&H colors. Taking this a step further there was also the NYC’s simplified “Cigar Band” scheme.

After thinking about it and considering the time constraints and limited number of models presently available I decided to start with three schemes. I put them in the order I thought most likely to be considered. They were:

1. An adaptation of the D&H blue over gray lightning stripe as currently used on the freight units. This seemed to me to be the most logical and likely to be approved, after all the RF16s were freight units.
2. An adaptation of the PA warbonnet scheme. This seemed a good choice since the warbonnet scheme , in my opinion, would look good on any cab unit in existence. The Santa Fe proved that as did the D&H PA s. I judged this slightly less likely since it was, in point of fact, a “passenger scheme”.
3. Lastly I decided to try an adaptation of the, classic NYC 5 stripe lightning scheme, that the sharks were delivered in. Sort of a tip of the hat to the adaptation of the Santa Fe scheme on the D&H PA s. This D&H “NYC Heritage” scheme would have a blue carbody, gray band and yellow stripe trim. This was in my opinion the least likely to be considered because it was quite extreme, and would lose a lot of D&H identity. The idea of a heritage Cigar band was a non starter since in my opinion this scheme didn’t even look good on NYC.

So now having mapped out a plan, with only two models I chose the best model (the Model Power shark) to paint what I thought to be the most likely scheme. It was to be umber 1 above, the straight D&H Lightning stripe freight scheme; blue over gray.

Since I didn’t really know just when Roger would need the models delivered I started immediately. This was fairly straightforward and it adapted to the cab unit shape quite well. Soon this first test model was done. The verdict?? I thought it was clearly D&H, and it was fairly attractive but not very exciting.

I then turned to the Mantua shell and tried to see how I could adapt the D&H warbonnet to it. The basic flaws in the model made it more difficult to accurately locate the striping, so had to eyeball it to get the effect I wanted, rather than measure out each stripe and logo location based on details of the loco.. ie: rivet lines, belt rails, louvers, etc

When actually painting the Warbonnet scheme on the Mantua model I quickly came to regret my original choice of which model to apply that scheme. The freight scheme with its great blocks of color punctuated by a single zig zag, slightly curved, but basically uncomplicated stripe would have been easy to adapt to the Mantua shell.. Whereas the warbonnet was complicated and there were no real accurate reference points on the model.. Soon this one was completed.. The verdict? It was pretty, was clearly D&H and had great potential but the fact that it was applied to a poor quality model dragged it down.

I was waiting for the arrival of more MP models when Roger advised me that he needed the models now. So I arranged to meet him at the Thruway interchange the next morning and he spirited the two models away.

As luck would have it two more Model power shells arrived that very day. I hastened to paint a new more accurate D&H warbonnet model and then adapted the NYC scheme on the other newly arrived model. When these were complete I contacted Roger and advised that I had two more models and one more proposed paint scheme for him to deliver.
He advised me that the choice had already been made. It was to be D&H Warbonnet.

Roger then told me that the painting was to begin almost immediately and he could arrange for me to accompany him to Colonie and watch the paint process. Of course I accepted that invitation and in a couple of days went to Colonie with Roger.

When we arrived, the 1205 was outside the rear of the massive Colonie Shop and the 1216 was inside being paint prepped. Roger checked in with some of his many contacts and found out that both units had recently completed their mechanical checks and servicing. Each unit had undergone a thorough check out of all systems, and adjustments and any necessary repairs made. This included cleaning, lubing, fueling and testing. These old girls were now mechanically operational.

We first took a look a 1205 sitting outside the shop. She sure looked war weary. The paint was old and dull with some areas of rust erupting from the side panels.

I tried to think back on how she used to look in prouder days. Although she was originally delivered to the NYC in their smart Lightning 5 stripe scheme, that is black carbody, gray center band and white trim and lettering punctuated with a small red oval herald on the nose, she now looked very forlorn in her dress of basic black. The Central had worked her hard and eventually repainted her in their utilitarian (and cheaper) Cigar Band scheme. When she was delivered to the Monongahela she was still in the Cigar band and she had not seen a new coat of paint in many years. The Monongahela painted out the NYC herald added their own stylized M R Y in an imaginary oval equal in shape and size similar to the former NYC herald. The words New York Central that once emblazoned her side panels were painted out and relettered with the word Monongahela in NYC style white letters. This patch up paint job did nothing to improve her looks but she was well identified as to her new master and of course she was no longer on the scrap line.

Looking at her as she was now in the D&H back shop, she was indeed a forlorn sight. The NYC s leftover white cigar band was still on the nose but the Monongahela’ special shark only herald was painted over with black leaving a blank space, as was the word Monongahela on her sides. Finally a rudimentary “DH” was applied to the flanks of the units with white paint. I say rudimentary because it looked as if the “DH” was applied freehand with a 6 inch housepainter’s brush. The D&H had their work cut out for them if they were ever to make her look proud again

We then took a look at 1216. She was inside in one of the service bays having the paint stripped. The D&H wanted the new paint job to be first class, so there was no “paint over” here. This required stripping the old paint down to the original metal, performing any body work necessary and then priming the whole unit before final paint.

This turned out to be quite a project. Just like the 1205 the New York Central had received this unit decorated in their famous “lightning 5 stripe” scheme and over the years she had received the same layer upon layer paint treatment. These units had a lot of paint applied to them over the years and it had been curing, weathering and hardening all that time.

The first thing that struck me about the 1216 was that as she was having her paint stripped with a chemical stripper and the paint was coming off in layers, in the reverse order that it had been applied. The Monongahela markings, and NYC cigar band stripe remnants was the first to go and had already been removed. There, haunting the service bay like a ghost from the past was NYC 3816 with the NYC lightning 5 stripes being revealed as the layers of paint were being removed. She must have been a real looker in her first days on the NYC, because here 26 years and a few layers of paint removal later she was a pretty sight all over again. I actually had thoughts about how nice she would look repainted in the original NYC, or even my imaginary NYC heritage style D&H lightning stripe

Once they removed all of the NYC lightning 5 stripe scheme and nearly of the original primer, she was cleaned, and body work was done on what few areas of rust and corrosion were found.

The windows, vents grilles etc were masked off and She was then primed with a red primer that was pretty close in color to a boxcar red or tuscan red. . When dry, this primer was hand sanded all over. She was then given a coat of yellow in selected locations, wherever the yellow warbonnet stripe was to be, on the nose where the new vee stripes were to be and around the belt, and pilot where the trim stripe was to be. This too was thoroughly dried and lightly sanded. I believe the paint was a 2 part epoxy type product of DuPont and it not only dried (cured) fairly quickly but was incredibly durable.

After the yellow striping was laid out and masked off, the Champlain Blue was applied to the nose, cab, pilot and a strip along the belt. The blue when dry (cured) was masked out and the silver applied. The running gear , tanks and other underbody items were cleaned and painted in an aluminum paint of a type normally used for running gear.

Then there was a great unveiling.. The masking was removed in layers (reverse order of course and what emerged from under all that paper and masking tape, like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon, was a D&H Warbonnet shark. She was indeed a beauty.. I no longer pined for the original NYC lightning stripe.. This scheme was a stunner… The model did not do it justice.

After removal of all the masking she was hand rubbed to remove any paint ridges at mask lines and received a bit of touch up here and there. Then the lettering and heralds were applied. A big D&H shield on the nose above the vee stripe, a smaller shield on the center third of the side, blue lettering along her silver flanks and blue numbers in her rear upper quarter panel. She was rolled outside into the sunlight for her much awaited debut as D&H 1216. The transformation of NYC 3816/1216/Monongahela1216 to D&H 1216 was now complete. She was ready to embark on her third career in 26 years.

The same process was repeated for the 1205 with identical stunning results and what a pair they made. Recently in an issue of Trains Magazine Greg McConnell referred to them as “Cinderellas in Silver and Blue” and I think he got it just right.

You may wonder just how closely The D&H followed the model scheme when they painted up the real thing.

Well it was very close but there were variations. All of the variations had to do with the inaccuracies of the Mantua model. The biggest problem was that the Mantua model had no side number boards and it did have a number board on the nose under the headlight. This variation in number boards has no prototype that I am aware of or can find through research. Somebody at Mantua must have had a dream or maybe a nightmare. The yellow stripe that went from the cab door and sloped to a vee at the center of the front of the nose was located roughly centered on the side of the nose. On the real RF16 it was logically located tucked up under the side numberboards placing it somewhat above center. Also the size of the herald on the nose of the model was of medium size since the Mantua nose number board restricted the space available for the herald. The real RF16 having no number board on the front of the nose had room for a much larger herald. Then there was the shape of the pilot. On the Mantua model the top of the pilot was flat, and on the RF16 the pilot actually sloped gently downward at the outboard edge. This meant that the yellow pinstripe along the belt and pilot, which was straight on the model, was actually sloped to fit the pilot on the RF16. These issues would not have been a problem had I selected the MP model on which to test the war bonnet scheme. In fact he war bonnet scheme that I painted when I acquired another MP shark model but was never able to deliver was almost a dead ringer for the D&H’s final product. The only difference was the location and color of the locomotive number on the side. The D&H located a blue number on the upper rear side panel, and my original version had the number in yellow on the blue side stripe.

It is quite normal for a model to be painted after studying the prototype, but it is a rare thing indeed when the prototype is painted after studying the model.

The sharks went right to work shortly after that and were sent to Whitehall for their first assignment, so they would be close to mechanical service at Colonie. They did eventually venture a little further from home for duty out of Binghamton on the Sayre Turn and Belden Hill pusher service, but as they became less reliable they returned close to home at Whitehall.

Everyone knows that this fairy tale has a bad ending. The story of their subsequent sale to Castolite by the D&H in 1978, and their ultimate storage on the EJ&E in 1982 after a couple years of service, but the details have always been a bit sketchy. What follows are the details as I have learned them.

Shortly after purchasing the sharks from the D&H and after having been assured by the D&H that the Sharks were in good condition, Castolite leased them for use on the newly formed Michigan Northern. Might as well have them earn their keep for their new owner in their 4th career. Unfortunately there were problems with them from the onset.

The story goes that the D&H had purchased replacement parts from a company in Belgium which had acquired the 600 series engine design from the remnants and successors of Baldwin. There were nagging reliability problems with a number of those parts. 1205 had a head failure on one cylinder and the MN maintenance people, took the head off, bolted some retaining straps over the liner to keep it from walking out of the block, left the piston connected so as to not unbalance the crankshaft and fired it up. When there was no significant drop in power while it ran on seven cylinders they continued to use it in regular service. This unit was then scheduled for a major rebuild by Castolite. Apparently this was done but sadly, the engine subsequently failed due to low oil pressure not too long after it was rebuilt and scored the crankshaft. This is an affliction requiring yet another major surgery and 1205 went into storage pending a decision by the owner on how to proceed.

The 1216 now an orphan was still serving on the MN and often double headed with a couple of Alcos. On a typical run, (turn job) the northbound train was light because most of the traffic was southbound the Shark would tow the pair of Alcos and the mostly empty cars. Southbound with a heavier train, the Shark would be towed by the Alcos except on the heavy grades. When the crew needed the extra power, the conductor would go back to the Shark and run it independently as a helper.

The 1216 soldiered on for a year or so until she was finally knocked out of service due to an operating mistake. She was working solo as the power on a snow plow run, pushing a Jordan spreader. The crew wanted to turn the equipment at a wye which meant the Shark had to tow the spreader around one leg of the wye. The Shark was run backwards into deep snow and the #4 traction motor grounded out, putting her in the hospital.

By this time, Castolite had had enough of Michigan Northern and took the units back. They then arranged to have the Shark with the bad crankshaft (1205) repaired at Diesel Electric Services in St. Paul, MN. DES removed the prime mover, but suffered a business failure and folded up before completing the job.. The unit was put back together and both 1205 and 1216 ended up going to the E&LS where Castolite arranged to have them stored. 1216 apparently received a new traction motor as she was operated briefly on the E&LS. It is not clear what happened after that, it is rumored that E&LS acquired the units from Castolite to settle storage charges. In fact they remain sequestered on E&LS property in Michigan. And that as they say, is the rest of the story.

Jay Winn

[LukRailAmerica]

Whats happend to this project ?????

[buzz456]

It's in process. Patience my friend.

[LordMannu]

Whats happend to this project ?????

It is in process. I have to wait until january to record the sounds because the sharknose in the club is under maintenance.

[Chacal]

The General Roca?

[LordMannu]

General Roca is the name of the railroad than owned it, actually is a Fallen Flag. The club´s name is Ferroclub Argentino sede (branch) Escalada.

Here a little video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7U38aDAIYQ

You can find ton of videos searching "Baldwin Escalada"

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... n+escalada