F7 Repaints: TS2012 Updates Out Soon!

[GreatNortherner]

Hi,

All of my F7 repaints, at least the ones using Marc's model, have been updated to TS2012 specs now too.

Fixes/enhancements include:
- added lights
- added new default shape files for snow and rain effects
- pasted most of the new default model's BIN file to get the new simulation and cabview (no more obstructed view!)
- added a probably slightly simplified simulation of the 24RL brake valve that was prototypical to most of these engines (release - running - lap - apply - emergency)

Is there anything else I should add or edit before uploading these? What's the consensus on brake (or other) physics tweaks, should any action be taken regarding this? If so, what precisely should be edited?

Thanks for your help!

Some pictures:

















Cheers,
Michael

[Kali]

I would edit the dyna brake, scenarios be damned - at the moment it's almost unusable. I've been using Maxforce of 45 on the GP9s - I've had zero feedback for my GP9 mods, so I can only assume that's acceptable. I personally would lengthen the brake timings, but those aren't actually gamebraking like the dyna brakes and something that should probably be personal choice.

[Griphos]

I'd hate to see a change that breaks scenarios. I'll be happy just to see out of the cab. I think I see the RWA skin back in the back of that first shot. I've been waiting for this to run the R&WA scenarios on your MC&SA route that use the F7. Thanks a lot for the fix!

[Kali]

Editing the simulation file would upset career scenarios - but editing the dyna brake to sane levels might well fix some other scenarios! certainly means you wouldn't have to be so over-cautious.

[imnew]

Thank you for upgrading these engines Michael ! Now they have all the TSX goodies

[Kali]

Actually these aren't repaints of the default, are they - so just copy the default sim file somewhere else rather than edit the original. Then you can go nuts on the brakes quite happily.

[GreatNortherner]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments! These are very helpful. I already created a clone of the default simulation folder, so I am indeed going nuts. I'm currently in the process of inserting all the apply, release, charge, etc. data from the latest MSTS realism patches. So far my impression in how these 'feel' like in RW is quite good. 30 car loaded coal unit train (default, unmodified cars) + 2 F7s with my mods - from 30 mph on level track to standstill with 30 PSI in the brake cylinders in a whopping 0.7 miles. Plus with an about ten times slower brake application than on the default engines it takes forever until the train even begins to slow, even when I slam the brake valve to almost full application.

Your dynamic brake force suggestion works very well too, it manages to slow the train nicely, but not too quickly on level track and holds it okay on not too steep grades. Please keep in mind though, my only point of comparison for all that is how a nicely tuned MSTS train handles.

I also try to "re-gear" the engines for a new max speed of 79 mph. The default of 100 was also available on the F series, but I think the slower geared ones were more common. 65 was the top speed of most freight units I think, though some railroad used even slower geared ones. What do you think, is 79 a good compromise to use only one BIN file, or should I try to provide seperate Pax and Freight units (more clutter in the asset browser)?

But before I get into that, I need to ask a quick question about the MaxSpeed setting: can I just edit that freely and the game engine takes care of the rest, or does this only work well (read: realistically) when the TractiveEffortVs* curves are also edited (which I wouldn't be able to do, BTW)?

There's more good news: Just last night I received permission from Scott Hoarty to include his three F7 reskins (CNW, GN, CMO) into the update process! Thanks very much, Scott!



Cheers,
Michael

[Kali]

Hi,

Your dynamic brake force suggestion works very well too, it manages to slow the train nicely, but not too quickly on level track and holds it okay on not too steep grades. Please keep in mind though, my only point of comparison for all that is how a nicely tuned MSTS train handles.

I also try to "re-gear" the engines for a new max speed of 79 mph. The default of 100 was also available on the F series, but I think the slower geared ones were more common. 65 was the top speed of most freight units I think, though some railroad used even slower geared ones. What do you think, is 79 a good compromise to use only one BIN file, or should I try to provide seperate Pax and Freight units (more clutter in the asset browser)?

But before I get into that, I need to ask a quick question about the MaxSpeed setting: can I just edit that freely and the game engine takes care of the rest, or does this only work well (read: realistically) when the TractiveEffortVs* curves are also edited (which I wouldn't be able to do, BTW)?

I should point out that by default DB only works on the head unit - I can do a quick bit of scripting to handle that, or you can just cut it out of one of the SD40 ones I've posted at some point.

MaxSpeed... heh. Not really sure why that's even in the blueprint - I assume it's a hangover from MSTS, but we do have functional drag now which serves the same function to provide increasing resistance as you go faster. Really what needs doing is functional overspeed detection, which is also probably quick to do - but I don't know how it behaves, whether it just cuts power until you've stopped speeding, or triggers an emergency stop, or what?

You can just reference your own TEvs curves in your copied sim blueprint and edit those; if you draw the curve in a spreadsheet, what happens when you change the gearing for slower gears is the graph gets higher and shorter - so basically multiply the Y( TE ) values by some number, and divide the X ( Speed ) by the same number, and update the graph. The speed doesn't have to be in multiples of 10, just makes it easier to read.

[Chacal]

Just so I'm clear: "Marc's model" is the 3DTrains F7 and also the Kuju one?
And not the HSC one which is a new model?
Have I got that right?

[Bananarama]

Just so I'm clear: "Marc's model" is the 3DTrains F7 and also the Kuju one?
And not the HSC one which is a new model?
Have I got that right?

Both models are mine. The F7 included in the HSC route, however, has some bits added by RSC.

[Kali]

Mhh, that will teach me to be lazy, I was assuming the default F7 and the HSC one had the same blueprint setup and I was looking at the HSC one - but no, the HSC one has over 5x the dynamic brakes of the default, which I guess is Marcs. Might as well leave it as it is then, Michael.

[Chacal]

I'm confused by these posts by Derek on the RSC blog.
I thought RSC had decided to make an entirely new F7 model for the HSC.
The timing would fit.

Did they not use this model after all?

On a different topic, it would be great if all F7s behaved identically (physics, cab controls, sounds, etc).
Is there a way to pick the best parameters and sounds and apply them to all?

[Kali]

For simulation data - that's power, brake timing/pressures - you can make them all use the same simulation blueprint. Control setup, weight, drag are all individually set in the engine blueprint itself. You can of course just copy chunks of blueprints, but there's no one-button-click method.

Michael I'll stuff some dynamic brake code into the default script and email it to you - I suggest you rename it slightly so it doesn't get blasted every verify ofc.

[Bananarama]

I'm confused by these posts by Derek on the RSC blog.
I thought RSC had decided to make an entirely new F7 model for the HSC.
The timing would fit.

Did they not use this model after all?

Although Derek was well on his way to completing what would have been a nice model, RSC cancelled the project in favor of purchasing mine for inclusion in the RW3 launch. It was simply a matter of scheduling and convenience.

[GreatNortherner]

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies!

Kali, thanks for all your help with these. I have already set up clones of the simulation and the lights folders to mess around with, so no default files will be affected by these reskins. At the moment I am still using the original engine script, I couldn't manage to include the multi-engine dyna/indy SD40 components into the load-depending smoke intensity of the default script. So in other words, thanks for offering to reworking the default script for the dynamics. I really appreciate your help!

BTW: This is what has been changed on all models now:
- TS2012 updates (pasted new shape files, edited BIN files to be up to date)
- lights update: a more narrow and longer beam
- added new default scripts to all repaints

The physics update for all engines features:
- gearing for 65 mph, 79 mph or 90 mph top speed (only ONE per engine, most are 79 mph)
- 24RL brake valve simulation
- new brake physcis, making heavy use of data from MSTS realism patches: train brake 0.9300 release rate, 0.4500 application rate, 0.8420 charge rate (main and emergency) -- Please tell me if I'm using wrong values here.

Cheers,
Michael