To all with the FL9

[JohnS]

In regards to the FL9, I'm working on correcting the brake issues but have come across something odd but cool. According to the FL9 manufactures manual the FL9 had 24RL brakes. With that said the cab is modeled with the 24RL but Blueprints don't match. The Simulation.bin file is setup for 26L like the F59PHi and the Engine.bin is kind of setup for the 24RL. Now my question to everyone is; Do you want me to try and figure out how to make the 24RL work or replace it with the 26L? There is major differences in these brake valves. One of the major things is 26L is self lapping and 24RL isn't. Meaning on a 24RL brake valve the engineer applies the brakes by moving the handle to "Service" then to "Lap" when the desired application is made. 26L brake valve doesn't need to do this. Any input would help.

Thank you John

[DrewG]

That sounds quite interesting will be cool to have a different kind of braking system. As long as you an stay entertained with it I'd love to see it done.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

What brake valve is appropriate for the modernized FL9 as offered by DTG?
If it is the common 26L. I wouldn't bother with the 24L, even though the locomotives were delivered with that to New Haven.

There are two brake valves, the cab car matches that of the locomotive?

Don't make it too complicated for us simple simmers:
First generation and older have the older brake valve with the "Lap" position.
Any post 1960's has the 26L brake valve: release - minimum reduction - full service (- suppression - neutral/handle off) - emergency.

When you are re-coding those scripts, would it be possible to add graduated release or is that impossible in the implementation of GraduatedSelfLapLimitedHolding?

[philmoberg]

FWIW the FL-9s on CTDOT's roster were all equipped with Schedule 26L brakes, according to the current equipment book when I retired in 2011. IIRC this was the case with all the FL-9s rebuilt for MNCR, with the possible/probable exception of the so-called Starship conversions.

[JohnS]

When you are re-coding those scripts, would it be possible to add graduated release or is that impossible in the implementation of GraduatedSelfLapLimitedHolding?

I can try. Didn't think of it before but I will look how they have it set up. Do you know of any other model that has graduated release and works so I can compare the files?

I'm thinking the 26L is the best way to go since these are supposed to be the rebuilds.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

When you are re-coding those scripts, would it be possible to add graduated release or is that impossible in the implementation of GraduatedSelfLapLimitedHolding?

I can try. Didn't think of it before but I will look how they have it set up. Do you know of any other model that has graduated release and works so I can compare the files?

I'm thinking the 26L is the best way to go since these are supposed to be the rebuilds.

Me too. I'll have to look through many locomotives and passenger cars to find an example. US only, or UK or GER as well (as far as former Kuju default stock is concerned)?

PS: the 2.02 Brake Simulation Data.pdf from the old DevDocs collection hasn't been superceded by the newer TS 2015 docs?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The default Kuju BR101 has graduated release on the air brakes. Through a simple script, still in lua, the air brakes are blended with the electrodynamic brakes (this is a modern AC electric passenger loco). It has a 8 notch virtual brake handle though, and uses the GraduatedSelfLap identifier on the underlying TrainBrakeControl.
Putting GraduatedSelfLap in the F59PHI indeed gave it graduated release, but did away with the proportional application from Minimum Reduction to Full Service Reduction at the same time, as could be expected. The F4/F5 HUD now show "direct".
Perhaps this is true to prototype as I am unsure wether there is a proportional release range exactly in opposite to the application range, ie. graduated increase in EQ pressure to from FS 78 to MR 104 psi and full release (EQ 110 psi) when the 26L brake handle goes past the minimum reduction "notch" on the escutcheon plate. Where this not so, a few psi could remain on the brake cylinders, causing excessive wear, heat, sparks and fires.

Graduated release is probably more common in EMU's, the M8 being a good candidate. Fixed consist DMU's/EMU's mostly use EP brakes which generally are notched.

[BNSFdude]

Graduated Release is used on most, if not all passenger service with the exception of scenic railroads. I'll see if I can take video of a 26 stand cut in on PASS mode.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Graduated Release is used on most, if not all passenger service with the exception of scenic railroads. I'll see if I can take video of a 26 stand cut in on PASS mode.

Yes, that would be nice, especially if you can show the EQ and BC gauges respond to the brake handle moving from release thru minimum reduction to full service and back slowly.
A good audio track without prime mover drone but with control stand mechanical clunks, the hisses and sighs of air passing through the valves etc. should come in handy for a HiFi cab audio enhancement you might want to produce.

[BNSFdude]

If you have the GP38-2s or my SD40-2 set, I already have a good 26-L sound set. Its just a matter of implementing my proper replication of sounds other than just one-shots to get the better of the feel. Its something I started for the 40 series pack updates, but never finished because the first one never got pushed.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Back the subject of graduated release of 26L equiped locomotives in passenger service, here is my summary:
locomotive pressure graduated? stuck EQ gauge? "feel" of the brakes?

Amtrak AEM-7 110 yes no good
Amtrak Acela 74? no no wrong (notched, handle positions: RL-MR-SUP-FS-HO-EM??)
Amtrak AES-64 110 yes no good (notched, handle positions: RL-MR-SUP-FS-HO-EM??)
Amtrak HHP8 110 yes no good (notched, handle positions: RL-MR-SUP-FS-HO-EM??)
Amtrak P42DC 110 no sort of good (handle positions: RL-MR-SUP-FS-HO-EM??)
EMD F40PH 90 no no good (handle positions: RL-MR-SUP-FS-HO-EM??)
EMD F59PH 110 no yes wrong, light engine behaves OK though

The EQ gauges are stuck when a cab car is attached, the P42DC screens are fixed at 90 numeral, but the bars display OK.
There is considerable variation in the application ranges, some have MR at 3%, others at 30% of the HUD handle range.
Suppression should come after Full Service on normal 26C valves, but perhaps on NEC the suppression of alerter messages is set to a lower brake pipe reduction because of the AWS script? The desktop valves are marked as such.

[JohnS]

In all the passenger equipment I ran Suppression always came after full service. its a little "notch" you feel in the valve at the end of full service.

[JohnS]

The brake fix has been submitted to FanRailer. I was not able to find a way (yet) for the graduated release feature but will continue to look into it. For now I have everything working.

Thank you
John

[Kali]

Every single piece of european stock has graduated release, single/dual pipe air or vacuum brake regardless - just use GraduatedSelfLap as the brake notch and set it up with a distributor that mimics triple valve pipe/local system ratios ( actually, would US stock with partial release also not have distributors? I was under the impression triple valves *can't* partially release ). Minimum application is a bit of a problem because it's bugged like some of the other notches ( how surprising ) and we usually script it instead, but maybe that won't be a problem in this case.

How common is/was partial release for US pass stock, and when did it start appearing?

[BNSFdude]

Amtrak Equipment uses Dual Pipe, and you are correct, a Control Valve (triple valve) cannot graduated release. I do not know the entire inner workings of it, but that's not to say I can't do some digging.