Update on the steamers

[dtrainBNSF1]

It IS indeed a good thing we met! You've got a pretty good working knowledge of steamers it would appear.

I'll take a look at the links you sent me. Thanks!

[dtrainBNSF1]

Something interesting I found out about wheelslip is that it works rather well on even track, if you use 1.0 for dry rails adheasion. Yes, with a heavy train you have to sand until you're really moving (10-15mph), but then it should be fine. The only thing left to check is grades... I have that terrible feeling that won't work out as well...

I did experiment with wheelslip a while back when I first starting modding. I found that leaving dry rails at 1 (at least for my test trains) made climbing up grades even with sand VERY difficult (a couple of times I stalled out even when according to accounts, documentation, and my own calculations I should have made it). I increased the value by increments to try and strike a "decent-feeling balance" with Berk mod 2.0.

As you may or may not know, the way Train Simulator calculates friction and therefore triggers wheelslip is a bit...wonky. Don't be surprised if you have to settle on a higher figure.

[dimovski]

Yeah wheelslip is sort of silly in RailWorks. Or rather, the way it's implemented!

I've made some headway on resistance calculations.. In fact, I found a formula by Baldwin to estimate how high the various losses are... On page 44 of this book 'ere:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=m ... 1up;seq=48


However, the way this could be implemented in RailWorks... With the rolling friction coeff. ...um, yeah... (I'd post a picture now, but as I'm on the Adriatic coast (again...), my internet is rather bad, and uploading would take ages.)

Whilst the "real" losses curve could be described as a typical quadratic equation (a*x^2+b*x+c) with a rather significant c (around a half of the maximum value), the way one can implement it in RailWorks is... a straight line.


I haven't really looked much at the freight car equation, but if it's about the same as for steam engines, it explains a lot about RailWorks' "wonky" physics and the "black art" of engine files.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Update on the SP Cab Forward

Max speed:75mph (full throttle, 10% cutoff, dampers open, blower closed, 80% firemass)
Loco and tender weight: adjusted according to figures at steamlocomotive.com
Fuel amounts:same

Loco can handle 1625t. unassisted from Colfax to Norden as per official SP documentation

Scenarios will be coming with the mod, though I don't know how many I'll end up making. Anticipate needing the following DLC in order to play the scenarios:
Payware:
Donner Pass
SP Bloody Nose F7 repaint (Marketplace)
SP Cab Forward
PRR Sharknose (for stock)

Freeware:
From Golden-Age-Rails.com
MILW PS-1 Boxcar
NP 40ft Reefer
Wooden Side Truss-Rod Frame Gondolas
40ft Flatcars (GN, NH, and D&RGW variants)
55t and 70t Offset-Side Hoppers from the BN and Predecessors pack
GN 40ft PS-1 Boxcar Pack

G-Trax Lightweight Streamliner 4-pack
Union Pacific (UP) Overland Gray Passenger Car

Here's some shots from one of the scenarios now in development:

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.12249--120.93871_07-02-49.jpg

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.12141--120.94479_07-03-05.jpg

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.12874--120.92084_07-08-39.jpg

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.12706--120.92826_07-08-54.jpg

[dtrainBNSF1]

I finally figured out how the numbering system on Britkits' Rotary Plow works, which gives me an idea...

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.29405--120.67348_12-00-48.jpg

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.29403--120.67348_12-01-04.jpg

[dtrainBNSF1]

Just thinking ahead here.

One thing I've wanted to do for a while is truly recreate a modern steam excursion with auxiliary tenders. DSGDDR made a really nice auxiliary tender for Union Pacific and 2 repainted versions of the tender appear in the Union Pacific Mega Pack here on the sight. What I would like to try is taking the black oil tender from the Challenger pack, set the auto numbering for either 3985 or 4014, and then editing the rear coupler so that it's a bar like what's between the loco and front coupler of the tender. Next I would take one of DSGDDR's tenders and set the front coupler to be a bar and leave the rear coupler as a knuckle. This way the front of the tender can couple to the oil tender and the back coupler can couple to a consist. Then in the oil tender's bin file I'd set the water capacity so that it's both the auxiliary tender's and the regular tender's water amounts combined, creating the effect of having the water of both tenders available, as you would in real life when driving with an auxiliary tender. Similar changes would be made for a 2-auxiliary tender setup (it's been done).

If I were to upload this to the library I know that I would not be able to release the Challenger tender's GEO file and I would just instruct whoever downloads it to copy/paste the GEO file from the regular tender's folder to this edited tender's folder, but if I were to do this would I need DSGDDR's permission to release an edited version of his tenders for this sort of setup?

[mrennie]

Just thinking ahead here.

One thing I've wanted to do for a while is truly recreate a modern steam excursion with auxiliary tenders. DSGDDR made a really nice auxiliary tender for Union Pacific and 2 repainted versions of the tender appear in the Union Pacific Mega Pack here on the sight. What I would like to try is taking the black oil tender from the Challenger pack, set the auto numbering for either 3985 or 4014, and then editing the rear coupler so that it's a bar like what's between the loco and front coupler of the tender. Next I would take one of DSGDDR's tenders and set the front coupler to be a bar and leave the rear coupler as a knuckle. This way the front of the tender can couple to the oil tender and the back coupler can couple to a consist. Then in the oil tender's bin file I'd set the water capacity so that it's both the auxiliary tender's and the regular tender's water amounts combined, creating the effect of having the water of both tenders available, as you would in real life when driving with an auxiliary tender. Similar changes would be made for a 2-auxiliary tender setup (it's been done).

If I were to upload this to the library I know that I would not be able to release the Challenger tender's GEO file and I would just instruct whoever downloads it to copy/paste the GEO file from the regular tender's folder to this edited tender's folder, but if I were to do this would I need DSGDDR's permission to release an edited version of his tenders for this sort of setup?

Why not wait for the UP GTEL to be released in September? Then you could use its tender. That's why I abandoned my water car.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Just thinking ahead here.

One thing I've wanted to do for a while is truly recreate a modern steam excursion with auxiliary tenders. DSGDDR made a really nice auxiliary tender for Union Pacific and 2 repainted versions of the tender appear in the Union Pacific Mega Pack here on the sight. What I would like to try is taking the black oil tender from the Challenger pack, set the auto numbering for either 3985 or 4014, and then editing the rear coupler so that it's a bar like what's between the loco and front coupler of the tender. Next I would take one of DSGDDR's tenders and set the front coupler to be a bar and leave the rear coupler as a knuckle. This way the front of the tender can couple to the oil tender and the back coupler can couple to a consist. Then in the oil tender's bin file I'd set the water capacity so that it's both the auxiliary tender's and the regular tender's water amounts combined, creating the effect of having the water of both tenders available, as you would in real life when driving with an auxiliary tender. Similar changes would be made for a 2-auxiliary tender setup (it's been done).

If I were to upload this to the library I know that I would not be able to release the Challenger tender's GEO file and I would just instruct whoever downloads it to copy/paste the GEO file from the regular tender's folder to this edited tender's folder, but if I were to do this would I need DSGDDR's permission to release an edited version of his tenders for this sort of setup?

Why not wait for the UP GTEL to be released in September? Then you could use its tender. That's why I abandoned my water car.

The gas turbine electric tender? ...it could work I supose.

[mrennie]

The gas turbine electric tender? ...it could work I supose.

The GTELs used tenders converted from retired Challengers and FEF-1s, so it would be suitable, more or less.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Speaking of loco water supplies, I've been meaning to ask you: Is their a way to control a steam loco's fuel economy? I'm concerned that some of the bigger locos I'm either modding or re-evaluating (Big Boy, Challenger, and the AC10-12) may be using a bit too much water. While the flow of water from the tender to the boiler is enough to keep up with demand, it only feels like maybe a minute later and the loco's already used up 10% of the water supply in that short amount of time. In MSTS I think it had something to do with the size of the cylinders in the .eng files, but I'm not sure if that's the case with Railworks/TS2015.

[mrennie]

Speaking of loco water supplies, I've been meaning to ask you: Is their a way to control a steam loco's fuel economy? I'm concerned that some of the bigger locos I'm either modding or re-evaluating (Big Boy, Challenger, and the AC10-12) may be using a bit too much water. While the flow of water from the tender to the boiler is enough to keep up with demand, it only feels like maybe a minute later and the loco's already used up 10% of the water supply in that short amount of time. In MSTS I think it had something to do with the size of the cylinders in the .eng files, but I'm not sure if that's the case with Railworks/TS2015.

The water consumption is the same as the steam generation rate - one pound of steam is the same as one pound of water, the only difference is the volume it occupies and/or the pressure. So the water mass should go down at the same rate as the steam is generated. Then, of course, there's the boiler volume (which you can set in the engine sim blueprint, in cubic feet). If you have that set very low, the water level will drop very quickly, simply because the boiler doesn't hold much water in the first place. When you say "used up 10% of the water supply", do you mean the level in the boiler has gone down by 10%, or the amount of water in the tender has gone down by 10%?

[dtrainBNSF1]

Speaking of loco water supplies, I've been meaning to ask you: Is their a way to control a steam loco's fuel economy? I'm concerned that some of the bigger locos I'm either modding or re-evaluating (Big Boy, Challenger, and the AC10-12) may be using a bit too much water. While the flow of water from the tender to the boiler is enough to keep up with demand, it only feels like maybe a minute later and the loco's already used up 10% of the water supply in that short amount of time. In MSTS I think it had something to do with the size of the cylinders in the .eng files, but I'm not sure if that's the case with Railworks/TS2015.

The water consumption is the same as the steam generation rate - one pound of steam is the same as one pound of water, the only difference is the volume it occupies and/or the pressure. So the water mass should go down at the same rate as the steam is generated. Then, of course, there's the boiler volume (which you can set in the engine sim blueprint, in cubic feet). If you have that set very low, the water level will drop very quickly, simply because the boiler doesn't hold much water in the first place. When you say "used up 10% of the water supply", do you mean the level in the boiler has gone down by 10%, or the amount of water in the tender has gone down by 10%?

I mean the water in the boiler has gone down 10%.

[Ericmopar]

Just a note. The Gas Turbines used the auxiliary tender for fuel not water. The steam was condensed into water and reused with condensers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_GTELs

[dtrainBNSF1]

Just a note. The Gas Turbines used the auxiliary tender for fuel not water. The steam was condensed into water and reused with condensers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_GTELs

I'm aware of that. What I'm trying to do though is create the illusion of having the water available from both tenders available. Once the Challenger tender's couplings have all been set to bar couplings, the only thing it can couple to will be the gas turbine tender. The water capacity in the Challenger tender will be adjusted to include not only its own water supply but also the water capacity of the auxiliary tender (so instead of just 20816.846 imperial gallons it will have 44131.714 imperial gallons. Another variant will be provided for cases when 2 auxiliary tenders are used, in that case adding up to 67446.581 imperial gallons of water being available (hopefully the GTEL tenders won't be strictly read-only, otherwise there goes a large chunk of the project). The equivalent of 2 water tenders is as far as I'll go since even though in real life 4 GTEL tenders have been saved for the steam program no engine so far has used more than 2 water cars on long trips. Because of the way the simulator is set up the loco cannot directly interact with the auxiliary tender, hence the reason for putting more water in the tender blueprint and creating the illusion, sort of like on the Cab Forward; the Cab Forward technically is set up to act like a tank engine with all the fuel blueprints being located in the lead unit. The Cab Forward tender doesn't do anything at all.

Editing work on the GTEL tender right now is projected to editing the auto number worksheet to read 809 & 814 (the current 2 water cars) and 903026 & 907853 (the other 2 ex-GTEL tenders saved for the steam program; don't know if these 2 have actually been converted for water yet).

So why change the rear coupling on the Challenger tender to be a bar coupling like the front coupling of the GTEL tender? To add to the illusion. The only way you'll be able to use that additional water and pull a consist is if you have both the edited Challenger tender and the edited GTEL tender(s) together, like in real life.

On the subject of water tenders, I've been thinking that one of Britkits' tenders from his free Xtra pack would look okay behind SP&S 700's tender to stand in as a possible auxiliary tender. Take a look:

JeKl-20111008-RestingAtBroo.jpg

[mrennie]

I mean the water in the boiler has gone down 10%.

In that case, it's probably the boiler volume that's too small. If you know how many gallons (Imperial) of water there are to a cubic foot, it's fairly straightforward to work out the boiler volume you need for G amount of gallons to change the water level by P percent.