Update on the steamers

[billy]

Tracks 1 & 2 main line.
If thats the case , I may need to get more than just the simulation folder.
I'm pulling ( 108 ) 50 & 55 ton coal cars and the caboose.
By my figures that comes out to 5200-5400 tons.
Maybe I'm adding wrong.

[dtrainBNSF1]

What you may need to do is go into the car's bin files to make sure that fully loaded your coal hoppers weigh 50-55 tons. The car weights and capacity are weighted in long tons (tonnes). You'll have to convert them to U.S. short tons. I don't own any payware stock outside of what's provided by DTG on steam (although you can bet when I've got the money I'm going for Britkits steamers and heavyweights!) so I don't know what the hoppers actually weigh.

[billy]

Capacity is 49.79
I thought that was it, or in this case nearly 50 tons.
50 x 108 = 5400 tons.
Sorry my mistake.
That's what happens when ya get old.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Capacity is 49.79
I thought that was it, or in this case nearly 50 tons.
50 x 108 = 5400 tons.
Sorry my mistake.
That's what happens when ya get old.

Okay, so capacity is pretty much 50 tons. What is the base weight of the hopper then? The base weight plus capacity tells you the actual weight for the hopper when loaded.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Well last night I stayed up until midnight doing some more tinkering. I decided to not tinker on a loco for which I had already released a mod, so I started work on the GS-4. I had some some work on it previously but never actually released the mod. Right not I'm doing test runs over Cajon Pass with 12 Daylight coaches and thus far everything seems to be working fine. I only got part way through the test last night because I was exhausted but I plan on going up the 3% section of line - this loco is going to WORK for this test
The loco is capable of traveling at a maximum speed of 110mph now; in service they were never required to travel more than 75mph or so. The locomotive is unique in that it featured a booster, which gave an extra bit of "umph" either when starting the train or traveling at low speed. The booster automatically cuts out around 15mph. After that the loco was purely on its own. Starting tractive effort is at 79,326lbf with booster, after the booster cuts out tractive effort drops to 66,326lbf according to steamlocomotive.com's entry for the GS-4. This has been reflected in the tractive effort vs speed file. Weight and fuel amounts have been adjusted. Right now this only applies to the Daylight variant, but in the future it will be applied the the BNSF, War Baby, and American Freedom Train variants.

[dtrainBNSF1]

And just like that I stumble upon this gem of a web page all about the GS-4s while looking for a typical consist to use for testing . What luck! Looks like I'll be tinkering again, though.

Screenshot 2015-04-22 17.39.14.jpg

[billy]

Oooops
49.79+18.46=68.25x108=7371Tons

[dtrainBNSF1]

Oooops
49.79+18.46=68.25x108=7371Tons

No problem Billy. Now we know what happened. Something similar happened while the Challenger mod was being tested, so no biggie.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Last night I tinkered with the GS-4 based on the figures from the screenshot and took a train of not 12 but 16 Daylight coaches from San Bernardino to Summit over the steeper 3% portion of track. With the extra "umph" from the booster and the blower helping to raise steam the train got no slower than 10mph on the short but steep 3.4% spurts between Cajon and Summit and amazingly that locomotive pulled the test train all the way up the grade!
This I believe is a great feat since the GS-4 was certainly not a lugger and I doubt one of the locos would have been allowed to handle a 16-car passenger consist unassisted up a 3% grade with several pockets of 3.4%. While the Daylight consist grew to 20-21 coaches between L.A. and San Francisco, I doubt the grade profile for the route became as steep as that seen on Cajon Pass. By the way: this successful test was accomplished despite the injectors not filing the boiler fast enough (feedratemultiplier was .15 and .93 - did not catch that at all ) and used way too much steam (at least for my taste). The injectors have thus been adjusted.

So now I am looking for a volunteer (or any number of volunteers) to test out this new mod for the GS-4. I will only send you the mod as it applies to the Daylight variant. While I will ask for your general observations about speed and power, I will ask you to pay special attention to, monitor and comment on these items:
-How fast the boiler replenishes with steam after the safety valves close - do you feel it's too fast, too slow, or plausible at least?
-The rate at which the boiler fills with water while the injector's on - does it feel right?
-The amount of steam lost while the injector's are on. Again, does it feel right? Is the locomotive still losing too much steam or is the loco running more efficiently than can be taken seriously?

Billy, I would like to keep you on the Big Boy for a bit longer - I'm going to send you another version of the simulation folder to try out in the near future. It should make the Big Boy's available tractive effort more "potent" while slightly smoothing out acceleration.

My goal: once testing with the Big Boy's power configuration is done I'm going to take it and apply a similar power configuration to the Cab Forward and get that started again. Once the GS-4 is tested and refined based on feedback, I'll publish the mod and then finally move on to the K4s. Now before getting started with the K4s, does anybody know the top speed of this particular loco? I want to say because it was for a long time the primary power for the Broadway Limited in direct competition with NYC's 20th Century Limited that it had to be capable of at least 100mph, but I don't want to work off of assumptions. So far I haven't been able to find anything about its top speed. Does anyone know its top speed or can anyone at least point me in the right direction of where I could find out?

As the school year winds down I find myself with a bit more time to work on these mods, which is why I've been so active for the last couple of weeks

[Railfan587]

I'd like to test the GS-4.

[dtrainBNSF1]

I'd like to test the GS-4.

Thank-you much! I'll try and sent it to you tomorrow.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Well, it's been a very busy last couple of days but plenty got done. Here's the low-down:

-Work has begun on the Cab Forward. Power, weight, speed, and fuel amounts are now correct. The loco is behaving well on Donner Pass, but I've noticed that because of the grade on Donner Pass you can't trust the boiler water level which is printed on the F4 HUD; you'll have to refer to the F5 HUD for an accurate reading for the water amount in the boiler at any given time. Top speed is 75mph @10% cutoff.

-The last couple of days were spent agonizing over the 700. It's power has been recalibrated, weight has been refigured, fuel amounts have been checked, the boiler has been worked on, top speed has been adjusted to 90mph @10% cutoff. This morning I got it to take the full consist of the GN Empire Builder (the one with too much rolling resistance) up the grade from Essex up Marias Pass with varying top speeds depending on the grade at certain points of the climb which can range from 1.5% in some places to 2.2% down by Java.

-The Berkshire has once again been looked over and tested. This one was a bit unique. The measuring stick for this loco's performance was based on a feat performed by NKP 759 when it managed to pull 1150t. over Horseshoe Curve completely unassisted. *DISCLAIMER* I had to fudge the tractive effort a bit in order to pull it off, but TS2015 forced my hand. The problem is just in front of the Gallitzen tunnel. According to a grade profile chart I was shown several months ago in real life the grade is supposed to be 2.27%. In TS that number was inflated to 2.4% - a nearly 6% increase. This 6% steeper grade resulted in the Berkshire being recalibrated to 25% more power than it actually has in real life; real tractive effort is supposed to be 64,135lbf. Because of the grade its tractive effort is now 80,648lbf which is just enough to get a 1150t. train into the tunnel at 8mph, which I feel accurately recreates the crew's story of the loco being "on its knees". Top speed is 70mph, again @10% cutoff.

Given that the Berkshire had to have its real-life tractive effort increased to compensate for the incorrect grade on Horseshoe Curve, should I also fudge the numbers on the K4s when I finally get to it and increase its real-life tractive effort by 25%? I have also decided on a preliminary top speed of 95mph or so. A video I saw about the K4s only mentions that it was capable of speeds "exceeding 90mph". Besides that I cannot find anything else that talks about its top speed, other than "It wasn't the fastest, it wasn't the strongest, but it was reliable and got the job done". Does anyone have any objections to aiming for the K4s hitting a top speed of 95mph?

[billy]

Its fine by me.
As I would rather pull the same approximate number of cars as the real world counter parts.
If we go over on tons, I can live with that, its just a game / simulation and you do it to have fun.
There 's no commerce, freight quotas, stock holders or profits & loss balance sheets here.

[dtrainBNSF1]

Work has finally begun on the K4s. Yesterday I got the locomotive's power, weight, fuel, and most of the boiler set up. Did testing this morning and the loco now hits 95mph at 10% cutoff with steam generation just exceeded. I went ahead and increased the power by 25% like I did the Berkshire, coming to a grand total of 55,907lbf. However this morning while doing a haulage test I began to wonder if I really needed it.
Here's what happened: I took a train of 12 cars weighing approximately 762t. from Altoona to Gallitzin. Traveling up to the Gallitzin tunnel the locomotive almost effortlessly maintained track speed. At the 2.4% grade it hardly flinched. Where the Berkshire slowed to 8mph, the K4s hit that tunnel at 28mph! I laughed so hard I nearly cried due to my surprise.

Later today I'm going to try a slightly heavier train, 797t. Maybe instead of a 25% increase in power it should have more like 5-6% more power. Here's why now that I think about it:

According to the math, a Berkshire taking 1150t. over a 2.27% grade shouldn't do too bad (20x2.27x1150=52210lbf<64135lbf). However if we add in the loco's weight like we're supposed to it becomes problematic (20x2.27x1542.25=70018.15>64135). So even if the grade was built correctly, the Berkshire would have needed a power increase anyway to recreate 759's famous run over Horseshoe Curve. That figure for train simulator increases to 74028lbf, so even more power would have been needed. With the Berkshire I had a measuring stick: get a 1150t. train over Horseshoe Curve and don't make it too easy - a load that it shouldn't have been able to get up to Gallitzin according to the math but somehow it did.
I have no such measuring stick for the K4s. I don't know what kind of tonnage the K4s usually took over Horseshoe Curve. Now because of the incorrect grade at Gallitzin it does need some sort of compensation, but more than likely less than what was needed with the Berkshire.

Another thing to think about is that the Berkshire was a freight locomotive built for a maximum speed of 70mph, so it used up its available tractive effort faster than an express locomotive like the K4s, built to travel in excess of 90mph. The K4s spreads it available tractive effort over a greater range and so has a greater percentage of tractive effort available at higher speeds than the Berkshires. It is also lighter than the Berkshire meaning it has a greater power-weight ratio as well (or at least I assume such).

So perhaps I've underestimated the K4s. Later I'll go ahead and tinker with the power settings again just to try it out and see what happens.

[dtrainBNSF1]

I just figured out a good method for driving steam locos and diesels together in one consist. If you've done this quite a bit then you'll already know this. For those of us who haven't driven steam locos and diesels together in one consist or who don't have much experience driving steamers, I thought that I'd share this bit of information:

-Diesels can only move their reversers when the throttle is set to 0; otherwise the reverser is locked into position.
-Steam locos can move their reversers continuously, independent of the throttle position.
-Steam locomotives have to reduce their cutoff (reverser) in the journey to ensure proper steam usage and to obtain high speeds.
-If you were to drive a steam engine normally (starting with full cutoff and then reducing the cutoff as speed increases) with diesels in the consist you will soon discover the problem: the diesel engines in the consist prevent you from reducing the cutoff until you set the throttle to 0. Then you can make the adjustment and open the throttle again.

This is a bit of a hassle in all situations. We do know this bit of information about steam locomotives:

-In general, a steam locomotive obtains top speed at around 10% cutoff
-Diesel blueprints recognize the reverser position as either forward or back, nothing in between

Knowing this comes a very simple solution: before starting the train set the steam locomotive's cutoff to 10% (or as close as you can get it - some steamers are very touchy with their reversers), release the brakes and then open the throttle. Because the reverser is in a forward position, the diesel blueprints interpret that the diesel reverser is also in forward position. As you open the steamers throttle, the diesels will do likewise (you will actually hear them rev up as you open the throttle more). As steam enters the steam chest and the cylinders, amps enter the diesel's traction motors and Voila! you have a steam loco working with a diesel. Because cutoff in the steamer is so low you won't have to worry about making adjustments mid trip and you can just focus on the throttle. The diesels will follow your lead and make up the difference for any tractive effort you need to get up to speed and to get over any steep grades in your way.

Using this method I took SP&S 700 over Marias Pass with 2 Dash 9s and an entire consist of GN Empire Builder stock, UP 844 (HUD version) over Donner Pass with the 150th Anniversary special using an ES44AC from the Sherman Hill route and 2 SD70Aces from SD70Ace Volume 1, and just this morning NKP 765 with the Horseshoe Curve Special over Horseshoe Curve leading the Pennsylvania and the Conrail heritage units.

Because of this I'm thinking of taking a page from FanRailer's mods and creating 2 versions of the simulation folder for the NKP Berkshire. One (which I'll call "High Power") will be the physics the loco will default to with my fudged numbers and should be used when taking the Berkshire over Horseshoe Curve alone and with no more than 1150 trailing tons. The other (which will be called "Normal") will feature the loco's physics with the real tractive effort of 64,135lbf and can be used on any other line with an easier grade profile than Horseshoe Curve and/or when accompanied by a diesel using this method of driving.

Here's some pics:

Screenshot_Marias Pass_48.42080--113.76536_12-43-55.jpg

Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.49721--78.48586_10-10-24.jpg