Articulated Stacks

[OpenRailer90]

I investigated the file structure and noticed it has its own sounds. For my use I will apply Krellnut's sounds.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Does the Krellnut package supply track joint sounds to the trucks, or just carbody rolling, groaning, squeaking sounds?
With this peculiar setup of visible - invisible - "W" trucks that might mess up the "clickety clack" effect.

Regarding the undesirable motion of the "W" trucks when a loaded consist is being pushed, I bet the prototype isn't easy to push either.
No doubt the BNSF SSI have special instructions for these cars.

Are they run in unit trains only? Blocking instructions apply to them when running in a general freight consist?

[ChrisOnline]

Yes I had the derailing problem yesterday, but as I was over a junction at the time I assumed it was something to do with the switches/points. I don't see it as a major issue because as you say, it should be taken gently and slowly anyway. As a thought, could the "mass" of the W trucks be increased to help?

I have noticed that braking seems to be very difficult. Is the braking transmitted correctly through the train? I just re-tested the reversing for the derailing, and from 15 mph in reverse, it wouldn't stop for a very long time (using 4 sets, 20 cars).

Finally, I also applied the Krellnut sounds, and like them. To be honest I didn't detect much sound in the original, and no noticeable "clickety click", so I still prefer the Krellnut sounds - sorry Rick! But I am sure they are not technically in sync with the truck formation.

[ricksan]

Oops! totally missed the brakes. That's why this is a Beta. Good thing I don't build real trains!

Sounds are Kuju generic. Replace as you please.

DTTX is now WIP -- A and B units done, looking for a good crisp TTX logo for the middle units. Also I like the idea of a half-stack and will include one in this set.

More screens...


The intermediate truck.


Another view of the beta set from the B (tail) end.

[ChrisOnline]

Go here, the TTX official web page and save the image from there:
http://www.ttx.com/TTXHome.aspx

The logo top left is a large (742 x 238) .png with transparent background - couldn't be better!

Chris

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Oops! totally missed the brakes. That's why this is a Beta. Good thing I don't build real trains!

Sounds are Kuju generic. Replace as you please.

I added brakes from your old double stack cars to each of the articulated segments as a temporary measure and assembled a 20 sets consist.
3 Gevo's, 100 loaded cars and 2 DPU at the rear is about 8000 tons of prototypical double stack train.

Very difficult to start the train from the Cheyenne QD curved platform track, getting consist tilt errors on any speed change above notch 1, even when holding back the locos by feathering the independent brake. Dropping one DPU made it better, as I got the impression the pushing force caused the derailment.
Starting very slowly and carefully at least got me underway reasonable well to start some testing. Going into Emergency derailed the train, unfortunately.

These cars physics need some sorting out. How does one observe critical parts like those "W" trucks in motion?

I noticed the trucks are asymmetrical in the blueprints of the intermediate segments. Can invisble and "W" trucks quasi physically overlap, or are their collision boxes preventing such overlap? By overlapping the trucks and having all their 3 centers at the exact articulating point/joint between the segments, perhaps the whole set will be more stable in buffeting?

[ChrisOnline]

OK, so once a seed is sown . . I got obsessed with the sounds.

Turns out, the BG_Modern.proxyxml file has all-empty tags, hence NO rail joint sounds at all (I did say previously, I didn't hear any noticeable sounds!!!). Also, the W Trucks make no call to BG_Modern.proxyxml anyway, so there will be no rail joint sounds from the center Units regardless

I did the following with Krellnut's sounds turned OFF initially (actually renamed the WJ Sound folder), so I could focus exclusively on the rail joint clickety-click with no other distracting sounds from any of the Units

1. Running with original files - Result: total silence (because wagon sounds were turned off, and BG_Modern.proxyxml for rail joint sounds has no content)

2. Added the correct references back in BG_Modern.proxyxml, and activated these sounds in Units A and B AND the W Trucks - Result: good track joint sounds throughout the train EXCEPT that there are "double-truck sounds" between Units A and E, and Units B and C (because we hear the W Truck AND the invisible truck in each case)

3. The ideal would be to disable the sounds on the invisible trucks under Units A and B, but this seems impossible to do without also disabling the visible truck sounds at the other end of each Unit. There is only one call to BG_Modern.proxyxml file from the .bin file, so it's "both or neither" (I wonder if it might be possible with scripting? . . . but beyond me). As an aside, I did try removing the invisible trucks completely from the blueprint in the hope that it could solve the problem, but it just met with an amusing collapse of the vehicles at either end as soon as the scenario started!. Still, it was worth a try!

4. SOLUTION - I created a new connecting Truck called ArticStack_W_silent.bin, with NO call to BG_Modern.proxyxml, i.e. a silent truck (effectively, what the W Truck started as!). In each consist, this W Truck_silent replaces the W Truck between Units A and E, and Units B and C.

FINAL RESULT: the rail joint sound of just one truck at each connection, except (correctly) where two 5-unit sets are connected. Rivet counters would argue that the sounds from the invisble trucks under the inner end of Units A and B are not quite triggered in the correct place, as those trucks are offset from the end of the unit - but it is not noticeable even running with only rail joint sounds, and once the Krellnut sounds are reactivated it is just a beautiful sound (IMHO!)

[Edit: I have corrected a couple of references to Unit numbers so that they now read correctly]

Chris

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

OK, so once a seed is sown . . I got obsessed with the sounds.

Turns out, the BG_Modern.proxyxml file has all-empty tags, hence NO rail joint sounds at all (I did say previously, I didn't hear any noticeable sounds!!!). Also, the W Trucks make no call to BG_Modern.proxyxml anyway, so there will be no rail joint sounds from the center Units regardless

I did the following with Krellnut's sounds turned OFF initially (actually renamed the WJ Sound folder), so I could focus exclusively on the rail joint clickety-click with no other distracting sounds from any of the Units

1. Running with original files - Result: total silence (because wagon sounds were turned off, and BG_Modern.proxyxml for rail joint sounds has no content)

2. Added the correct references back in BG_Modern.proxyxml, and actived these sounds in all of the main Units AND the W Trucks - Result: good track joint sounds throughout the train EXCEPT that there are "double-truck sounds" between Units A and D, and Units B and C (because we hear the W Truck AND the invisible truck in each case)

3. The ideal would be to disable the sounds on the invisible trucks under Units A and B, but this seems impossible to do without also disabling the visible truck sounds at the other end of each Unit. There is only one call to BG_Modern.proxyxml file from the .bin file, so it's "both or neither" (I wonder if it might be possible with scripting? . . . but beyond me). As an aside, I did try removing the invisible trucks completely from the blueprint in the hope that it could solve the problem, but it just met with an amusing collapse of the vehicles at either end as soon as the scenario started!. Still, it was worth a try!

4. SOLUTION - I created a new connecting Truck called ArticStack_W_silent.bin, with NO call to BG_Modern.proxyxml, i.e. a silent truck (effectively, what the W Truck started as!). In each consist, this W Truck_silent replaces the W Truck between Units A and D, and Units B and C.

FINAL RESULT: the rail joint sound of just one truck at each connection, except (correctly) where two 5-unit sets are connected. Rivet counters would argue that the sounds from the invisble trucks under the inner end of Units A and B are not quite triggered in the correct place, as those trucks are offset from the end of the unit - but it is not noticeable even running with only rail joint sounds, and once the Krellnut sounds are reactivated it is just a beautiful sound (IMHO!)

Chris

/

Good thinking, Chris. Shouldn't those silent "W" trucks be located between A and E, and C and B, if the set is made up like A,E,D,C,B?

[ChrisOnline]

Good thinking, Chris. Shouldn't those silent "W" trucks be located between A and E, and C and B, if the set is made up like A,E,D,C,B?

Yes, you're correct. I did it right, just got the letters mixed up in the post! I've corrected them now to avoid confusion when someone else reads it!

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Good thinking, Chris. Shouldn't those silent "W" trucks be located between A and E, and C and B, if the set is made up like A,E,D,C,B?

Yes, you're correct. I did it right, just got the letters mixed up in the post! I've corrected them now to avoid confusion when someone else reads it!

Om thinking this over once more, would the best clickety clack pattern produced by a sequence of: A sounding, W silent, E silent, W sounding, D silent, W sounding, C silent, W silent, B sounding? The sounding inner trucks of A and B are slightly off from the visible W truck, but since there are no visible railjoints to synchronize the clickety clack to, that doesn't matter. Not a any speed above 10 MpH IMO.

[ChrisOnline]

Om thinking this over once more, would the best clickety clack pattern produced by a sequence of: A sounding, W silent, E silent, W sounding, D silent, W sounding, C silent, W silent, B sounding? The sounding inner trucks of A and B are slightly off from the visible W truck, but since there are no visible railjoints to synchronize the clickety clack to, that doesn't matter. Not a any speed above 10 MpH IMO.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I've done! Yet again, an error in my post. I tried so many permutations before arriving at the solution that I confused myself once I wrote it up! So my point 2 below eventually reads "Added the correct references back in BG_Modern.proxyxml, and activated these sounds in Units A and B AND the W Truck" Again, I've re-edited the post to avoid the confusion that I caused you! Apologies

[ricksan]

This schematic might better explain how I set this up...



The B and C car arrangement mirrors that of the E and A cars, with the D car in the middle.

Some things to note:
-- Bar couplers are used throughout except at the two ends. The idea was to limit longitudinal displacement between the internal segments.
-- Except for the W unit, all cars are standard freight cars with two two-axle trucks.
-- The W unit "truck" geometry is actually its main body. The wheels are linked directly to it. This is how those two-axle railcars used in Europe and elsewhere are set up.
-- All the cars except for the W unit reference the audio files as children.

Regarding the audio, please help me on a couple of things.
-- Aren't the clickety-clack rail-joint sounds generated by the track system using files in the RailNetwork folder?
-- There seems to be agreement that the Krellnut freight-car sounds are superior to Kuju's. Can I substitute them for the Kuju ones in the release package?

[ChrisOnline]

Regarding the audio, please help me on a couple of things.
-- Aren't the clickety-clack rail-joint sounds generated by the track system using files in the RailNetwork folder?
-- There seems to be agreement that the Krellnut freight-car sounds are superior to Kuju's. Can I substitute them for the Kuju ones in the release package?

Hi Rick,

Yes, I believe the clickety-clack sound is triggered by the Route's RailNetwork folder (i.e it tells the vehicle WHEN to make the noise) but the actual noise is generated by the file:
Assets\G-TraX\ArticulatedStacks\Audio\RailNetwork\Bogies\BG_Modern.proxybin (which then calls the .dav sounds from within the same folder).

But if you open your BG_Modern.proxybin file (as uploaded), you'll see that all the tags are empty, so it performs no calls and makes no sound. I copied in the whole folder over from Soldier Summit, as that's the latest US route released by DTG, but it could have been any - including Stevens Pass, I guess, or Kuju as you intended. I have tried several and there seems to be no significant difference between them that I can tell.

Krellnut's sounds are nothing to do with the rail joint noise of course. They are all the creaks, wheezes, groans, flange scraping and so on, many randomly distributed around the consist. The freight car's .bin file is not changed as it still calls the child object: Assets\G-TraX\ArticulatedStacks\Audio\RailVehicles\Wagons\Wagon Freight Sound.bin, and the existing .dav files etc are not overwritten. However the Wagon Freight Sound.bin file itself has its <sound component> tag changed to point to the WJ Sound folder which is in the main Assets folder, and therefore by-passing the sound files in place. It's just one simple edit.

As Krellnut's sounds are freeware and in the library here, I would have thought there's no problem using them for other freeware products, but you might want to check with him. However it might be easier (and cleaner) just to leave the Kuju sounds in place, but provide a simple patch to the Wagon Freight Sound.bin file for those who wanted to use the Krellnut sounds (which they would have to separately install if they didn't already have them)

Chris

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I think that got the sounds sorted. Now the physics of a prototypical 20-30 sets consist.

In my setup, the consist is very unstable. Also, there are logmate errors: "Collision will go through the ground for railvehicle". Without any specification as to which vehicle, typical!

I suppose its the "W" trucks, the unproven and most troublesome part of this articulated consist. There is some maths in the logmate.
I changed the values to those of the cars and the error got away.

Running the "Havner advanced HUD", I noticed there is considerable slack action, since it has an acceleration display. Even with V52.2 of gamemanager.dll it is unclear to me if the indicated speeds are head end or rear and, and wether the Havner maths take this into account.
Feathering the independents prevents to locos from jumping forwards at a throttle increase.
You learn someting in Run8, even though the amps is nowhere near the max allowed for 3 ES44AC's.

[OpenRailer90]

Speaking of the Kujunsounds this comes with its own dav files, why not have it alias the Wagon Sound.bin file in the Kuju/RailSimulatorUS folder instead...maybe to save on disks space.

Any plans of included QD consists with any vehicle (I.E. All BNSF ES44DCs with BNSF Stacks, and Sherman Hill ES44 and SD70M with TTX). You can do as you wish as it would be great if they ca spawn as AI traffic on routes.