Is it Not Possible to Copy/Relocate Assets to a Grouped/New Directory?

[PullmanCar]

Hello All,
I have recently been working to make the Kalamazoo reskins suitable for publishing. The previous way was quite confusing with assets under numerous providers, sound packs in another, simulation files in another. All in all, it became quite cumbersome to use, and a significant process to faff about with.

I as such began the herculean task of moving everything to a provider called 'KALAMAZOO' (yes that meant changing so many .bin, and .xml files).

This left
KALAMAZOO>EMDFP7Pack01 for instance, KALAMAZOO>alco; etc.

20240115142327_1.jpg

I made certain to copy all of the files and geos, etc. I have had no problem with the 3rd party assets, but the DTG ones I have not had success with, they all give the geometric "hellscape" effect.

20240115142638_1.jpg

I successfully did this some time ago, but am now wondering if DTG .GEOs are protected in such a way this cannot be done?

If this is the case, I suppose it is back to the drawing board, having wasted some time; and time to see if I can at least combine the sound packs and simulation enhancements into the original DTG folder. I am never keen to do that however, as such would require modifying the vanilla folder, hence why I was hoping to keep it separate, plus having all of the KTR assets in one folder.

This may have been a poor decision, so I would appreciate not being asked "why" or told off, although constructive criticism on this not having been a fruitful, or doable endeavour, are most helpful. Other suggestions to avoid having to tick 5 providers for one engine would be welcome.

Ex. KTR E9Am BN 9912
CentralJerseyRailfan>645 for sound, TRS>CNW_E8 for Beacon, SearchlightSimulations for horn, etc.
The Erie E8 had one provider for sounds, one for portholes, another for ditchlights, plus the model itself.

Thank you,

'PullmanCar'

[AmericanSteam]

I don't know if this will help but a few 3rd party developers are creating .bat files that will move the associated .geo files without manually moving them. You install your asset folders then run the included .bat file and that does all the work. Here is an example:https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c1-train-sim-classic/c10-reskins/c25-north-american/c27-locomotives/i3870-lpm-ge-ac4400cwm-cpkc
This way you would not need to physically pack the .geo files and also it keeps from infringing on copyrights.

[PullmanCar]

Thank you for the suggestion. I have seen the .bat method, but it still leaves the fact that one engine in-game would require multiple providers to be sorted, something that is an issue when you have LOTS of content as I do. I shall explore the .bat however for installation.

Unrelatedly, it seems to be an issue on my end, as some items will work. I am assuming I have simply forgotten something, despite triple checking. For instance the Empire Builder F units work, the Empire Builder Coaches work, the domes and Obs do not. (I am assuming it to be an interior issue in those instances). Naturally mistakes crop in....

'PullmanCar'

[GreatNortherner]

Hi,

I successfully did this some time ago, but am now wondering if DTG .GEOs are protected in such a way this cannot be done?

I'm afraid that the "geometric hellscape" you're seeing after migrating the DTG assets is their copy protection at work. Using the .bat file copy method won't help in this case as the copy protection probably checks if the files are in their original location.

There may be a workaround, though I haven't actually tested this. You could try moving only the assets' blueprints (.bin files) to your new provider folder while leaving their internal geometry references intact (still pointing to their original DTG/RSC paths and Geo files). The copy protection should be happy and you could even share the .bin files (which would be technically the same as uploading a repaint with an edited .bin file and that .bat file to copy the Geo files, which DTG does permit).

Cheers,
Michael

[cnwfan]

Michael,

This is interesting. Just so I understand, if I clone the Feather River caboose, put into the SF Peninsula route by adding the files and editing the bins, but have the bins point to the geometry files in Feather River, I don't have to tick the Feather River route to get the caboose available in the SF Peninsula route?? If so, wow! No longer would I have to remember what repaint is in what route just so I can tick it to get a single car. Could it even be taken a step further and group all era cars into a single provider? For example, all transition era cars into a single provider folder? A single tick gets all cars??? Could this be true??

This is actually something I wish DTG and even the 3rd party providers would do. When a route is added, just add the rolling stock and locos to a common folder. It would sure make scenario creation easier.

[GreatNortherner]

Hi Howard,

As I said above, I haven't actually tested this in practice, but what you wrote might well work.

I did something similar before, recommended by Buzz or PapaXpress back then, in my GP9/SD9 locos that are on my website. They use the sounds from the Kuju assets by aliasing them in the blueprints, but I believe they run without having to tick the Kuju folders in the editor. And if this works with sound blueprints, maybe it does so too with complete wagon or even engine blueprints? Though there are many more elements in those, so also more chances for it to go wrong.

if I clone the Feather River caboose, put into the SF Peninsula route by adding the files and editing the bins, but have the bins point to the geometry files in Feather River

Yes, in theory this might work. In theory, the bare minimum you might have to copy is the wagon .bin file if you leave all file references in it unchanged (numbers, couplers, geometry, audio, etc.) Note that repaints still require their separate set of Geo files so that they load their own textures, so a combination of the RW Tools .bat installer and the "split off" .bin file might be required.

Cheers,
Michael

[PullmanCar]

Hi Howard,

As I said above, I haven't actually tested this in practice, but what you wrote might well work.

I did something similar before, recommended by Buzz or PapaXpress back then, in my GP9/SD9 locos that are on my website. They use the sounds from the Kuju assets by aliasing them in the blueprints, but I believe they run without having to tick the Kuju folders in the editor. And if this works with sound blueprints, maybe it does so too with complete wagon or even engine blueprints? Though there are many more elements in those, so also more chances for it to go wrong.

if I clone the Feather River caboose, put into the SF Peninsula route by adding the files and editing the bins, but have the bins point to the geometry files in Feather River

Yes, in theory this might work. In theory, the bare minimum you might have to copy is the wagon .bin file if you leave all file references in it unchanged (numbers, couplers, geometry, audio, etc.) Note that repaints still require their separate set of Geo files so that they load their own textures, so a combination of the RW Tools .bat installer and the "split off" .bin file might be required.

Cheers,
Michael

For everyone who is curious, I shall give this a try this weekend, to see if such works.

‘PullmanCar’

[cnwfan]

If this works, it's a game changer for me. I'll keep my fingers, eyes, and toes crossed that this works. If I have a chance this weekend, I'll try testing too! Thank you!!

[RudiJaeger]

There may be a workaround, though I haven't actually tested this. You could try moving only the assets' blueprints (.bin files) to your new provider folder while leaving their internal geometry references intact (still pointing to their original DTG/RSC paths and Geo files). The copy protection should be happy and you could even share the .bin files (which would be technically the same as uploading a repaint with an edited .bin file and that .bat file to copy the Geo files, which DTG does permit).

Michael, I'm glad to see your post, as it supports my suspicions may indeed be possible.

I never tried it with repaints, but I stumbled upon the "bin file only" method a couple years ago while route-building and thought it was a fluke, like it would only happen on my own installation and no one elses for whatever reason; but I continued putting only the object's bin files in corresponding folders within my own developer's folder and most of the time everything worked, with bin-files from both payware and freeware developers. I never announced anything, since I wanted to complete the route, then have some folks beta test, and if all went well, I would announce what I thought was a game-changing discovery... no more having to check the box for several supporting dlc's. Of course we would still have to own the dlc's, but we wouldn't have all the overhead that comes with loading an entire route's, or multiple routes' collection of assets into memory. Not only that, but I no longer had to sift through the multitude of assets, often duplicates, from the various route dependencies that I elected to use. Now, aside from the one primary route that I used for a template, I only saw the individual assets from the additional routes whose bin files I chose for my developer's folder. As fate would have it, the route I was working on now lies dormant on my hard-drive due to real-life priorities, but hopefully I can resume work some day. In the meantime, I am hoping that what I'm describing here can be useful to someone.

Regarding the "geometric hellscape"; this is the exception to the "works most of the time" that I mentioned. For example, the Promontory Summit route has some assets that I tried to use, but when I copied the bin files to my own folder and tried to place the objects onto my route, I got the geometric light show; and that happened with every object from that particular route. Then there were a few objects from other providers that would not display at all. But again, for the most part, the bin-file only method actually works. So that said, perhaps the objects that don't work are due to copy-protections as previously posted; but I also think in some cases it may be due to the bin files being relocated and something (i.e; syntax) in the geo-files or other pertinent files have become broken as a result. I never dug deep enough into the problem when it occurred to know exactly. Typically, if something did not work, I would spend a few minutes trying to figure it out, then move on to a similar object that would work.

If there are any route builders who would like to try this method; here is an easy example, using the now freeware Bessemer & Lake Erie route, re-named Pennsylvania Steam, now found in the the RWA Library https://railworksamerica.com/index.php/ ... collection
I have the original payware version, so I'm using it's folder structure in this example, but the freeware version should be similar:

First, in the Railworks\Assets folder, go to G-TraX\BLE\Scenery\Vehicles, and copy only the bin-file named GX_SteamShovel01.bin and place it into the corresponding folder of your own developer's folder, for example YourTitle\YourRouteName\Scenery\Vehicles. Now start the sim and using your own route, go into the editor and in the People, Animals, Vehicles category, and you should now be able to select "GX_SteamShovel01" and place it into your scenery.

Note that the way this works, is as long as your own developer's route folder "box" is checked in the route editor, the bin file/s placed into your own folder/s will be active. The bin files, even though in your own folder, still point to the additional route asset folders where the Geo-files reside, and the geo-files still contain the information to find the corresponding texture folders within the original dlc. So unless there is one of those few "exceptions" that I mentioned, everything should work, even though any additional route or third-party asset folders are not activated (box-checked) in your route editor.

Bottom line, and to "PullmanCar"; odds are you are onto something here, so don't give up if at first you don't succeed. I know everything I described applies to route building, but I don't see why this concept couldn't be applied to what you are trying to accomplish with your repaints.

[ENR3005]

Yes this is possible to some extent on many levels. I have been using my own custom folder for both motive power and rolling stock for years now. By using my own folder I was able to modify all my rolling stock and motive power to use custom sounds and scripts and eliminate items from other packages / sources I did not want to use without touching the originals. This is as simple as copying the bins into your own structured folder. With respect to repaints, I have not been able to replicate the same as the GEOs specifically point to a specific directory (textures) which is possible to modify when duplicating provided it is not one that is protected like many of the DTG ones are. Repaints as far as my own experimentation, still require their own dedicated folder which I use with my own custom rolling stock folder as noted above when doing a repaint. With respect to route building, the same can be done based on my own preliminary experiments a long time ago and again is as simple as copying the bin file you want to use into your own structured folder. I had contemplated doing this at one time as switching between several different asset folders and searching for specific objects was getting to be a pain and time consuming at times. A whole existing route can be converted to run in this format simply by changing the paths using TSTools, it is time consuming but can be done. I have actually thought about doing this again after taking a break from route building for the last year due to unexpected family matters.

Food for thought.

[PullmanCar]

Hi,

I successfully did this some time ago, but am now wondering if DTG .GEOs are protected in such a way this cannot be done?

I'm afraid that the "geometric hellscape" you're seeing after migrating the DTG assets is their copy protection at work. Using the .bat file copy method won't help in this case as the copy protection probably checks if the files are in their original location.

There may be a workaround, though I haven't actually tested this. You could try moving only the assets' blueprints (.bin files) to your new provider folder while leaving their internal geometry references intact (still pointing to their original DTG/RSC paths and Geo files). The copy protection should be happy and you could even share the .bin files (which would be technically the same as uploading a repaint with an edited .bin file and that .bat file to copy the Geo files, which DTG does permit).

Cheers,
Michael

Am I correct that this means changing all path references to the new provider, but leaving anything that references a .GEO to the original?
A bogey.bin file would point to my provider, and an interiorgeometry or geometry would point to the originaL?

Thank you.
'PullmanCar'

[ENR3005]

Hi,

I successfully did this some time ago, but am now wondering if DTG .GEOs are protected in such a way this cannot be done?

I'm afraid that the "geometric hellscape" you're seeing after migrating the DTG assets is their copy protection at work. Using the .bat file copy method won't help in this case as the copy protection probably checks if the files are in their original location.

There may be a workaround, though I haven't actually tested this. You could try moving only the assets' blueprints (.bin files) to your new provider folder while leaving their internal geometry references intact (still pointing to their original DTG/RSC paths and Geo files). The copy protection should be happy and you could even share the .bin files (which would be technically the same as uploading a repaint with an edited .bin file and that .bat file to copy the Geo files, which DTG does permit).

Cheers,
Michael

Am I correct that this means changing all path references to the new provider, but leaving anything that references a .GEO to the original?
A bogey.bin file would point to my provider, and an interiorgeometry or geometry would point to the originaL?

Thank you.
'PullmanCar'

For Route Building you only need to edit the path within "the route you are building" to reference your provider folder and your modifications will work provided your folder is structured properly. It can take a little trial and error to get it working until you understand where all needs to go. In your provider folder, make sure you do not change the name or edit any of the bin files your have placed there otherwise nothing will not show up. With the bin file itself in your own provider folder, the only thing you should change if needed is the name / description for your own editing purposes under the <BrowseInformation> section within the bin file at the top which does not affect anything. You have not repainted the asset or duplicated it, so nothing needs to change within the bin itself. Here is an example from my own folder setup: Barnez\BNSFChicago\Scenery\Vegetation\CD_Bush_Bottlebrush_25m.bin needs to be changed to VictoriaShops\SecheltNorthCoast\Scenery\Vegetation\CD_Bush_Bottlebrush_25m.bin within my route, no other change is required just make sure you have a copy of the original bin file placed you folder. Also while editing your route don't forget to edit the track, roads and lofts as well and cleanup your track rules at the same time if you have accidentally used more than one set of rules during your route editing, it is the same type of editing.

For Motive Power and Rolling Stock provided you have followed the procedure for an old school repaint and you have it placed in the original provider's directory, all you need to do is make a copy of the bin from the original provider folder where your repaint is located into your own folder, you don't need anything else. Unlike the example I laid out for route building above, you can rename this bin file to whatever you want, box_car_50ft can become SC Rail box_car_50ft. I would also change the description internally under the <BrowseInformation> section to reflect your repaint.

[PullmanCar]

Hi,

I successfully did this some time ago, but am now wondering if DTG .GEOs are protected in such a way this cannot be done?

I'm afraid that the "geometric hellscape" you're seeing after migrating the DTG assets is their copy protection at work. Using the .bat file copy method won't help in this case as the copy protection probably checks if the files are in their original location.

There may be a workaround, though I haven't actually tested this. You could try moving only the assets' blueprints (.bin files) to your new provider folder while leaving their internal geometry references intact (still pointing to their original DTG/RSC paths and Geo files). The copy protection should be happy and you could even share the .bin files (which would be technically the same as uploading a repaint with an edited .bin file and that .bat file to copy the Geo files, which DTG does permit).

Cheers,
Michael

Am I correct that this means changing all path references to the new provider, but leaving anything that references a .GEO to the original?
A bogey.bin file would point to my provider, and an interiorgeometry or geometry would point to the originaL?

Thank you.
'PullmanCar'

For Motive Power and Rolling Stock, provided you have followed the procedure for an old school repaint which is in the original provider's directory, all you need is make a copy of the bin from original provider folder where your repaint is located into your own folder, you don't need anything else. Unlike the example I laid out for route building above, you can rename this bin file to whatever you want, box_car_50ft can become SC Rail box_car_50ft. I would change the description internally under the <BrowseInformation> section to reflect your repaint.

Thank you. It is for locomotives, and stock, namely the E units. I have given it a try, with my own DLW reskin, which works fine in the originalDTG>Amtrak E8Pack folder, with sounds aliased from TruRailSimulations, etc.
The original file still seems to have to be turned on for the locomotive, to work, however, unless I am doing something incorrectly.

'PullmanCar'

[ENR3005]

That is correct, you will need to still tick the original provider folder, there is no way around this however the asset will show up under your own asset folder provided the original one's viewable tab is off.