RSC SD45 windows

[awaken1977]

Disclaimer:
1) I respect all developers and their effort, regardless is it payware or freeware.
2) This post not inteded to be a "RSC bashing" thread.

I was wondering , why cab windows on RSC SP SD45 are asymmetric from driver's and engineer's side and is it like that on prototype or not?

I did some research, and what I 've found so far.
Historically, SP SD45, SD45T (and some GP 38, GP40) got L-shaped front windows from engineer's side, providing better visibility for engineer.

SP SD45 with original "L-window":
http://www.railpixs.com/sp2/SP9315_WallerTx_July76.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6 ... 597240.jpg
Nice view from inside the cab, by the way:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x218 ... -07024.jpg

After rebuild, L-windows were removed and replaced with normal window as increased safety measure. It required to install new pillar between 2 windows, but pillar is thinner than one in standard spartan cab, and central window on engineer's side is of larger width (asymmetric). That's because it must cover rather big "hole" in the cab.
I's happened largely in 80thies, some sources claim that last machines with original L-windows existed in 1995.
http://www.rgusrail.com/album/utshferc/sp_7457_01.jpg
http://www.barraclou.com/rail/up/sp7457.jpg

Note, that driver window is as narrow as on conductor's side, not wide like in RSC model.

In RSC SD SD45 model, central window is the same as standard one, but engineer-side window is wider, and central windows are symmetric. Wrong.
Spacing between the windows also wrong (compared to SP 7457 above, where it's clearly seen)
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/1IkIvlPIngA/maxresdefault.jpg

Also, afaik L-windows were only an option of Southern Pacific. Some of such engines were given to Alaska RR. BN , ATSF or their merger's engines have standard spartan cabs with symmetric windows.

p.s I know it's too late to write anything to RSC about model, they never fix anything.
But I have a wish that all future modellers - please do some research on real subject. I know how frustrating is to spend 7-8-12 months for the model, and figure out that something was wrong from the beginning. I know it's a hard work.

With respect to all modellers!
Victor

[buzz456]

I do not see the purpose of this post on here. Please explain to me why this piece of extreme trivia is of any importance or interest to anyone?

[awaken1977]

Please explain to me why this piece of extreme trivia is of any importance or interest to anyone?

If nobody cares about realism, I'm talking to a wall

Cab is essential part of exterior, not "extreme trivia", imho. It's like a face for locomotive. In this case, like a face after unlucky plastic surgery

[buzz456]

This is supposed to be a fun forum about the adventure of railroading in the simulator with a little dash of the real stuff, not a forum of extreme rivet counting. Further let me just quote from your post:

"2) This post not inteded to be a "RSC bashing" thread."
and then:"p.s I know it's too late to write anything to RSC about model, they never fix anything."

The second statement is patently untrue which is what really annoyed me. If you are going to post stuff like this at least get it in the right place not in general discussion.

[awaken1977]

Isn't general discussion intended for anything is simulator-related but don't quite fit to other forums? I can't find topic devoted to SD45.

If so, I'm wrong.

[Bananarama]

This might be better suited to the "Problems and Peculiarities" forum, after all, this is a peculiarity, no?

[BNSFdude]

Actually, if you did your research, you'd find that a lot of SD45s are different from the models you mentioned.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9504 ... txsag1.jpg
The above is an example of an unrebuilt SD45. Remember, there's always an exception to the rule.

[BNSFdude]

Also, afaik L-windows were only an option of Southern Pacific. Some of such engines were given to Alaska RR. BN , ATSF or their merger's engines have standard spartan cabs with symmetric windows.

Fun fact. All of Alaska Railroad's GP40-2s were ordered by Alaska Railroad. Not passed down by SP like you stated. Like I said, research is a great thing.
http://www.alaskarails.org/pix/ARR-pict ... oster.html
It would also help if you addressed the real developer of the SP SD45, not RSC. Digital Train Model (Cesar Pach) is the real developer of this product, and he's very open to the community. You'll find him known as "Mannu".

[PolyesterMafia]

With all due respect, Victor, have you ever attempted to model anything in railroading, whether it be a table-top layout or a virtual piece of rolling stock? The fact that there is no such thing as a "standard" locomotive, with variables even within the same model and phase, would mean that unless you build every possible variation FROM THE BUILDERS BLUEPRINTS, you could not get it completely right. And even if you had those blueprints, limitations in the game and graphics cards would prevent you from doing so. There are only so many polygons a computer will draw without bogging down.

You will find that no matter how much research you do, and how many nuts and bolts you include, you will still leave something out. And as you have enlightened us, no matter our best efforts, someone will still find something to nitpick about.

[Bananarama]

Agreed. I tried creating multiple variants based on phases and railroads for the F-Unit, and while easy enough for MSTS, turned into a logistics nightmare for Railworks. Generic with only basic differences applied are acceptable in my book (the "close enough" rule). That's not to say the author shouldn't research the model being created, just that not to worry about 10 louvers per vent vs 12.

[Ericmopar]

I was more concerned about the freight car couplers pushing into the car body on long trains and causing derailments, when helpers were on the rear pushing, on the SD45s. That and the brake bins were a mess causing very grabby brakes.
I'm not a rivet counter though. In fact I'm wondering if we're ever going to get Mike's FEF-3... That is extreme rivet counting by the maker in action.

[awaken1977]

With all due respect, Victor, have you ever attempted to model anything in railroading, whether it be a table-top layout or a virtual piece of rolling stock? The fact that there is no such thing as a "standard" locomotive, with variables even within the same model and phase, would mean that unless you build every possible variation FROM THE BUILDERS BLUEPRINTS, you could not get it completely right. And even if you had those blueprints, limitations in the

Let me share some experience.

- I did models for MSTS some years ago since 2004, and some were converted to Trainz as well.

- Blueprints are often wrong. Especially if they are from hobbysts sources. I build my first model based on blueprint, scanned from scale model magazine. It had wrong roof height, which was discovered when I compared my loco with model of other author. Now, I see that blueprint is wrong just looking at it. But it was not obvious until I researched real subject and did many photos from different angles.
I consider this model is a crap because of wrong dimensions. It was released in 2005. But some people like it, and still do repaints:



- The only reliable way to build model with proper dimensions is to measure it with tape. I did that too with my friends. Sometimes it's really hard if loco ever exist in single specimen somewhere in museum.
But there are railfan friends all over the world, who can help with photos and measurements (and they usually help). If we help each other, it produces better results.
We often organized railfan events, visiting some engine depot with cameras, sound recorders, rulers, and collecting various materials for future modelling. Some material was never used, but it was collected "just for sake of it". Maybe, somewhere in the futire.

-There are many deviations from standard in real life. That's true. Some locos can be rebuild with non-original parts or customly modified. Lights, switches, gauges may have variations. But such thing as body dimension is invariable. I learned that once on my own errors, and that's why I'm so picky about geometry and proportions.

[johnmckenzie]

Personally I've no problem with anyone trying to make anything in this sim as accurate as possible.

Good choice of song, by the way.

[LordMannu]

Hi Guys.
As you know, I first created the UP variant, then, using the UP model as base, I made all the changes for the SP variant. After a short research I noticed the cab was be a problem. At some point I red about the cab changes and I choose to create a later version without the L window. At that moment I didn´t notice the windows dimensions. I just supposed it was like the other cabs. I always work with blueprints, most of them from old model railroader magazine, like in this case. The main problem is hardly you will find two identical locos. So you have to choose what details include and which not. I would like to measure the engines by my self, but take a plane to the USA is not a possibility.

[awaken1977]

Thanks for good explanation, Cesar.