Scenario Troubleshooting

[jackal40]

Well, after uninstalling and reinstalling TS 2013 (as per Railworks Support instructions) the problem still exists. I can only believe that something within the scenario itself has gotten corrupted and must be started over from scratch.

Thanks for all the suggestions and assistance.

[BlueLight]

There have been many time when I had to start over on a scenario .
When working with A.I. I have found that you place your A.I. one at a time and see how it works
and keep adding until it screws up. At that point you know where the problem is.
Best of luck on your endeavour.

[jackal40]

Interesting that you mention AI, I have just finished adding my 23 AI train to my "Base" scenario (which I plan on using as a starting point for other scenarios). The AI director is a cuss-worthy fellow and requires great patience and a lot fiddling to get the trains to behave as desired.

It's a shame that the AI isn't better developed, hopefully that is something Railworks is working on.

[OldProf]

There have been many time when I had to start over on a scenario .
When working with A.I. I have found that you place your A.I. one at a time and see how it works
and keep adding until it screws up. At that point you know where the problem is.
Best of luck on your endeavour.

Well, not always. Sometimes adding, let's say, the 10th AI suddenly prevents the 3rd AI from running as you intended. Removing that 10th AI may or may not solve the problem, since the mythical "dispatcher" sometimes doesn't realize that number 10 is now gone and number 3 should return to running as intended. Personally, I think that dispatcher is actually Foreman Dan Hernandez in disguise.

Despite all of this, making scenarios still intrigues myself and many others!

[BlueLight]

And that may very well be true. However in my experience I have found that when the sim won't load after the last A.I. was placed
It's usually a good place to start. Sometime there will be conflicts with A.I. and the remedy is simply placing a marker tell that unit
where to go. The only perfect formula is no A.I., and that would make this sim very dull indeed.

[jackal40]

Yes, I am finding that the Dispatcher will break for no reason and it's a pain to fix. I'm very tired of the "unknown error" as well.

There are some features that I miss from MSTS - the ability to define a "route" and have multiple AI trains use the same route, with adjustments for starting times is a big one.

[OldProf]

Yes, I am finding that the Dispatcher will break for no reason and it's a pain to fix. I'm very tired of the "unknown error" as well.

There are some features that I miss from MSTS - the ability to define a "route" and have multiple AI trains use the same route, with adjustments for starting times is a big one.

I don't know what you mean by "the Dispatcher will break" -- that's much too vague --, but if editing a scenario leads to an error that shuts down or freezes the sim, I find that the first step to take is to shut down the computer completely, boot up again, launch TS and try running the scenario. That frequently fixes the situation. What caused the problem is seldom clear, but one of my best guesses is that editing the same instruction too many times (no, I don't know how many is too many), deleting one or more instructions and then inserting new ones, especially into the middle of a long sequence of instructions, and keeping the editor active too long (no, I don't know how long is too long) can all lead to what I think of as editor fatigue. This has been true in every version of this sim, even before it included the Timetable Editor.

I'll repeat for the nth time that writing and editing scenarios are difficult processes that require lots of patience and time. If you don't have one or the other, be content playing other people's scenarios.

As for your yearning for MSTS, why not just go back to it?

[PapaXpress]

OpenRails just came out with a number of new features and stability fixes.

[BlueLight]

After working with a scenario for a few hours with multiple additions and subtractions of instructions I have found
that clearing the cashe seems to help. I'm not holding my breath mind you but I do hope that RSC can address some
of these editor issues in their upcoming version.

[jackal40]

I don't know what you mean by "the Dispatcher will break" -- that's much too vague --,

If you don't have one or the other, be content playing other people's scenarios.

As for your yearning for MSTS, why not just go back to it?

An example on the dispatcher; I get a scenario working properly, safe, and shut down for the night. I come back the next day and check the scenario to find at least one train with an "unknown error" which usually requires deleting all waypoints and the final destination, then reapplying all instructions.

Since the route isn't finished, it'd be a little hard to play other peoples scenarios on it.

As for MSTS, I said I missed a few features. Not sure why you interpreted that as a yearning for it, Open rails does hold some promise for all the work that had been done, but a working editor is my first requirement.

Thanks for the Clearing the Cache suggestion, usually I do that when adding or subtracting content. I'll give that a try when I run into issues with the AI pathing.

[OldProf]

... An example on the dispatcher; I get a scenario working properly, safe, and shut down for the night. I come back the next day and check the scenario to find at least one train with an "unknown error" which usually requires deleting all waypoints and the final destination, then reapplying all instructions. ...

Sorry, I somehow missed the point that you hadn't finished the route yet. So, are you editing both the route and your scenarios? If so, the scenario errors you're experiencing may be related to changes you've made to the route itself or to something that happens to the route when you save it, rather than being the fault of the "dispatcher". Have you tried the create-test-clone-edit method of writing scenarios?

Step 1: set up the player train with all of its instructions (will require placing stand-alone rolling stock for switching scenario), using a temporary name (e.g., newscenario.
Step 2: test scenario and edit as necessary.
Step 3: clone scenario with slightly different name (e.g., newscenario 1AI). Add 1st AI train to this scenario.
Step 4: test this clone and edit as necessary.
And so on, adding one and only one AI train with each new clone. Keep original and all clones until scenario is complete and runs as expected every time.
Once you have a satisfactory, dependable version, rename the final version, deleting the letters "new". Using the Packager utility, place all versions of your scenario in a single package and save this RWP file in a safe place, in case you decide to modify the scenario in the future.

This method can become tedious, but I've found it much safer and more reliable than any other.

[jackal40]

Old Prof,

What you've described is the basic process for my AI train scenario. The real issue I've run into is: after creating and testing a working AI schedule, I return the next day and upon opening the scenario in the editor, load the Time table editor only to fine one or more of the trains now has a broken route.

I imagine that part of this is due to the ongoing editing of the route - but it's frustrating when there have been no edits to the route and I've gotten a working schedule, only to come on the next day and something is broken on a schedule.

However, as I have 23+ trains in this base scenario, I do expect refinement will be necessary to get a good playable schedule.

[Chacal]

With 23 trains, you may be pushing the game to its limits.

[jackal40]

With 23 trains, you may be pushing the game to its limits.

Quite likely - but without RS letting us know what the limits are, I know of no other way to find out.

[OldProf]

With 23 trains, you may be pushing the game to its limits.

Quite likely - but without RS letting us know what the limits are, I know of no other way to find out.

My uneducated guess is that the number of AI trains included in a scenario is just one of many variables capable of "pushing the game to its limits". Others certainly include the complexity and length of the route itself, the number of actions assigned to the player train and their complexity, the number of assets added by the scenario writer (from static rolling stock to objects such as people, clutter, etc.), and the capabilities of the computer system on which the scenario is being run. I don't see how anyone would be able to define these limits, including RSC.