Car Fowarding/Operations

[Jib228]

Ive had Railworks for a while, but I've found nothing on this subject.

What do I mean by car forwarding? I mean a system in place that says car X needs to go to industry 1, then industry 2 and so on and so fourth.
The scenarios do an mediocre job of simulating this, as it doing the exact same thing over and over again. Where a system that dose randomly assigns destinations to a car based on type and load condition would be nice. I know other sims have some thing like this.

So what I'm getting at is, is there a system like this that I am just missing? Or is this just an idea that could be looked into?

[Chacal]

Dynamic scenarios are not possible with the current game.
However it would be easy to make such a system for creating waybills (car forwarding orders), which could then be used as input for making scenarios, i.e. the scenario creator could build a scenario based on waybills. Actually such systems have been used by railroad modelers for decades.

There's a difference in scope though. A waybill commanda the delivery of one car from one industry to the next, regardless of railroad boundaries. RW scenarios command the delivery of several cars (a consist) from one point to another on the same route (e.g. from a yard to industries, from a yard to another). Thus a scenario covers only a small part of the waybill for each car in a consist. Scenarios are short and independent from each other, so there is no need to maintain consistency between scenarios. I imagine waybills would be great if you want to model the operations of a whole railway, which is not what RW aims to do. Not sure if it would be worth the effort.

It would be possible to partially automate the creation of RW scenarios based on waybills, but not easy.
RW scenario instructions are more precise than "drop car X at industry Y". They reference precise locations (destination markers), for pick-ups you must specify front or back of engine, and the path to destination is important.

[hminky]

I tried to use "ShipIt", the model railroad car forwarding software.

It doesn't work because the time cannot be advanced to end out the day when all the work is done. There are no SMTWTFS days in the game.

TrainSimulator 2013 is a fixed based limited scenario game and will not allow a dynamic endless session.

A dynamic session with real car forwarding is really great as it can be done in other venues.

Harold

[Chacal]

Where a system that dose randomly assigns destinations to a car based on type and load condition would be nice.

More specifically about this, I once wanted to have a manual system for easier scenario design.
What I needed, that I couldn't find:
- a table of RW rolling stock with their standardized car types;
- a table of industry type vs car type (e.g. what types of cars go in/out of what type of industry;
- for each RW route, a list of industries with their industry types or even better, a list of industry sidings (destination markers) with expected car types in and out.

[harryadkins]

I have put together several route industry guides to help me plan scenarios (see attachment). I've also tried several waybill creation/switchlist programs to help planning. The problem I've run into is the auto-number feature. Model railroads use individual cars with unique road numbers. Does anyone have any ideas on getting around the auto-number issue?

[Chacal]

Wow, Harry, this is exactly what I was thinking about.
Great work!

[harryadkins]

I found the attached switch list generator a few months ago and took some time to set it up for the Bay of Quinte this afternoon. Take a look and see what you think (see attached).

Harry

[OlPaint]

This discussion reminds me of the "Waybill Generator" system discussed on Model Railroader magazine in the 60's. That system was "paper and pencil" with special file cards with plastic pockets for each car in the fleet with a slip of paper showing the "Industry Car Order" both with loading point and unloading point on the front and back of the inserted slip of paper. The empty cars were assembled in the division yard into a Local Freight and delivered to the Industry Siding. When the car was loaded then the slip of paper was turned over and put back in the file card plastic pocket. The next Local Freight to come by picked up the loaded car and headed to the division yard. Then the Yard Master would make up the next Local Freight to delivery the Loaded cars. Today, this could all be done in a dedicated software package. This system would emulate a real operating Railroad...the next step beyond "Switch Puzzles" to keep the attention of the "easily bored" folks.

OlPaint

[Chacal]

Here are on-line articles about this kind of system.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/library.htm
Look for "Model Railroad Operations"

[OlPaint]

Chacal

I remember NMRA from my model trains other-life. This is a real neat train modeler's website. I'll be spending several hours pouring over this stuff.

Yes indeed. The "Car Card" system. I vividly remember dropping my card stack of waybills on the floor at one operating session at the Club and spending the whole rest of the evening tryng to get everything put back where it belonged. Or Operations via Excel Spread Sheet may be just the thing for you, Jib, to eliminate the stacks of cards.

OlPaint

[OlPaint]

Harry

I've had looked over the Route Industry Guides and your BQR Switch List Generator. Outstanding!!!

How difficult would it be to build scenarios based on the "Switch Lists" as a guide for maually setting out cars for a scenario from your assets fleet at all the Industries Sidings and/or at Yard Tracks for assembling and running Local Freights?

I think you are really on to something worth developing further. Someone with the necessary computer skills could put together an Excel Spread Sheet with a randomizer function that would simulate a fictitious Railroad Sales Department, taking in car orders from the Industries on the Line. The empty cars go out to the sidings to be loaded. Then move the loaded cars to the Division Interchange Yards to ship out to the world. Or for that matter, move cars of raw materials from the Division Interchange Yards back to the Industries on the Line. American Enterprise at Work!

OlPaint

[harryadkins]

OlPaint,

It's not difficult at all to setup scenarios based on the output of the switch list generator. I'm still trying to "fine tune" it a little to include interchange cars to be picked up by the CN. Basically, if either a "yes" or "no" is included in the "pickup" column, a car of that description should be placed there before the scenario begins. Cars included in the "deliver" column are included in the starting consist for your local train. There are other switch list generators out there that simulate a 4-cycle waybill, but they are also based on unique roadname/number freight car combinations.

I agree that a programmer could setup Excel to duplicate these functions and more. Perhaps someone could take this generator and expand it to include more prototypical functions based on some of the data from Chacal's suggested websites. I would be glad to work with a programmer and have tons of data based on 4-cycle waybill systems. I've also seen switch list generators based on MS Access.

Harry

[OlPaint]

Harry

I agree that Access would be a more powerful application for designing and managing a Waybill System to create scenarios and aid in placing rolling stock for a scenario startup situation on the route. And by building Macros to handle the behind the scenes mechanics, one could even run the Access DB data manipulation using a Forms/Reports Dashboard. My head is spinning around the design possibilities. Ultimately, the dedicated Access application could even autonomously assemble the scenario XML code for Railworks to run.

OlPaint

[Chacal]

Ultimately, the dedicated Access application could even autonomously assemble the scenario XML code for Railworks to run.

This part is more my kind of thing, however I'm not sure it would be reasonably feasible or worth it.
Building the XML for the instructions is the easy part.

Problem is, this can only be done after the following manual operations:
- the scenario builder must chose cars in the scenario editor from his own available rolling stock;
- he has to place them on a track and assemble consists in the scenario editor;
- a number is assigned to each car by the scenario editor according the available numbers in the car's numbers.csv file.

Given the number of manual operations, itis easier to let the scenario builder input the instructions manually in the scenario editor using the output from the waybill system.

Also, Access. Nobody has that, everyone has Excel.

[OlPaint]

Chacal

I know that any spread sheet program can keep track of a rolling stock fleet of assets. But Access can handle heaps of data in table form and do marvelous things manipulating individual records by following rules and macros on many list tables that only have to be built one time with car types and numbers, industries and products and raw materials. And doesn't the auto-number function in Railworks follow an algorithm that assigns the apparently "random" car numbers? This is something that Access has the power to do - to follow that same algorithm and generate apparently "random" car numbers, too. Access can even simulate an advancement of time for the Railworks world to follow for scheduling activities.

I agree that despite the obvious advantages of using a powerful Database Tool such as Access to control a "Waybill" System for Scenario building - would it be worth the cost and effort to build such an animal? Especially, since playing the part of Car Forwarding/Operations manager for Railworks, by actually assigning and placing cars to the tasks at hand, is the most part of the Fun of building scenarios.

OlPaint