AI pick up and Drop off?????

[emdsd90mac]

If I am reading some of the posts correctly, AI traffic can be commanded to pick-up and drop-off cars on where ever it is told to do so. I am having some issues figuring this out. I am using the "Add to Back" command and telling the Loco to go to the correct track but, then the Loco either stops short of the cars I have selected for it to pick-up or it drives through the set-out, stops, changes direction and drives away. The documentation that came with 2013 doesn't really spell this out and it's beginning to frustrate me; I am chasing my tail here. Any thoughts? I am wanting to create a scenario on Sherman Hill hopefully to release. I know I shouldn't worry about the AI so much, but I wanted to add a some realism to the scenario. What am I doing wrong. Also, for some reason or another, I am not getting the pop word when you hover over an icon and this is making scenario creation a little slower too.

Well, never mind I guess. It only seems to act up when I hit the play button in the scenario editor itself where you can adjust the speeds of play back. When I play the actual scenario it does as it's told. Weird.

[OldProf]

Let me start with a question: have you read the Creator's Manual carefully and thoroughly? Even though that manual has not yet been updated to TS 2013, the instructions contained in it still apply.

Yes, AI engines can execute pick-ups and drop-offs, but only under certain conditions. Drop-offs are the easier instruction to handle, but they must be made on an otherwise empty siding. In other words, an AI engine cannot drop off by coupling its load to cars already standing in the siding; I'm 95% sure that this is because the AI "driver" does not know that the other cars are there. I've never tried picking up an existing set of cars and then dropping off everything, but I feel pretty sure that such a maneuver would not work, either. Note that the AI train will enter the selected siding, drive to the far end of its marker, and make the drop-off there. The "Stop Here" instruction does not work with AI trains.

Pick-ups can also be scheduled, again with certain restrictions. The most important of these is that the cars to be picked up must have been in position at the beginning of the scenario. An AI "driver" cannot pick up cars that another driver has dropped off. It's also important to select the correct pick-up instruction, front or rear. Finally, the pickup must be made on a track with the proper directionality. In the situation you described, my guess, based on experience, is that the AI "driver" is trying to drive through the siding so it can make the pickup from the other end. This can sometimes be handled by either editing the direction of the siding's track, which can be done at the scenario editing level, or by having the AI engine run around the load to be picked up through an adjacent siding and then make the pickup.

AI pick-ups and drop-offs fall into the advanced editing level and often require a lot of patience. Sometimes, after numerous trials, I've discovered that what I want simply cannot be accomplished. If you've reached the AI placement stage, I assume that you have already programed your player engine (unless it will pick up cars dropped off by an AI driver, of course). Before beginning to experiment with AI, and especially with AI switching, clone your original scenario and give it a new name, such as MyScenario v2 [you should have named the original version MyScenario v1]. As soon as one AI train is working as you want it and not interfering with the player train, clone MyScenario v2 and rename it MyScenario v3. Continue this pattern until all trains are running correctly, then rename the final version MyScenario and delete all of the other versions.

No one promised that scenario creation would be easy, but reaching a succesful conclusion is always very rewarding. Keep at it!

By the way, when you use the so-called VCR to review a scenario while still in the editor, no pick-ups or drop-offs actually happen. The engines follow (sometimes, at least) their assigned paths and that's all. The VCR cannot be used to review the timing of instructions. I consider it absolutely useless.

[Machinist]

I've never tried picking up an existing set of cars and then dropping off everything, but I feel pretty sure that such a maneuver would not work, either.

I already did it once, the pick up instruction is independent of the drop off instruction, so they should work. What I no long recall is if the engine that hooked the staged cars (they must be placed when scenario starts, as mentioned) had other cars attached, or was a light engine (I am pretty sure it was light).

Note that the AI train will enter the selected siding, drive to the far end of its marker, and make the drop-off there.

Not always, it depends on the use of the "Stopping point" marker direction. You can drop cars off anywhere you want in a (say) siding. See more here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3742#p34864

The "Stop Here" instruction does not work with AI trains.

What is the "Stop Here"? the "Stopping point"? or the "Stop at" with speed set at zero?

Cheers,
Doc.

[OldProf]

Machinist: I am just reporting my own experience and, yes, by "Stop Here" I meant "Stopping Point", but the actual instruction is named "Stop At", so we're both a bit off track (pun always intended).

In the post you provided a link to, you stated,

Conclusion: The SP was designed to be effectively functional only for AI Trains.

I categorically disagree with that statement. In the current Timetable View Manual, there are two sections about the Stop At instruction and neither one refers to AI traffic. I have tried to use a Stop At instruction for AI, but the train either completely ignored it or stopped ahead of it and went into one of those stuttering acts. On the other hand, I and many other scenario writers, including RSC, have successfully deployed the Stop At instruction for player trains. As you stated, it is more of a suggestion than a command, but that also applies to the more common Drive To instruction: as long as the player stops within the correct track marker, "credit" is given and the scenario moves ahead. The Stop At instruction becomes useful when the scenario writer wants the player to stop at a particular point located within one of those ridiculous end-to-end siding markers that I have long railed (yep, that's another pun) against.

Regards,

Tom

[Machinist]

By "The SP was designed to be effectively functional only for AI Trains" I meant it works for AI trains (well, at least was working on Oct 2011, one year ago when I tested, I didn't try TS2013 yet), however is just a suggestion for Player: if Player stops anywhere at the siding (even far of Stopping Point) the instruction is achieved as completed, anyway. No instruction is especifically designed for Player or AI Trains (again, not sure in TS2013, I saw some new icons though), they are just instructions, you can even have no Player train in a Standard scenario (yes!), in this case you can jump forth and back into any passing train and drive it till its final destination, like it happens in a Freeroam scenario with many driveable trains. The advantage of a Freeroam with drivable trains is that you can control every switch (manual or automatic), but in the Standard with no Player the automatic junctions are locked (controlled by AI Dispatcher).

The "Stop at" is a general instruction and the "Stopping Point" is a marker (so they are not the same thing, they have different use and purpose, although they work together) with an especific instruction (which is accomplishable only for AI Trains) to stop the head end or rear end of an AI train at an especific point when using correctly the built-in directional arrows of "Stopping Point" marker object.

Cheers,
Doc.

Edit later: Just in case, IIRC due to the reason I mentioned above (one is a general instruction, the other is a marker with an instruction for AI only), to make an AI stop wherever you want at a general track marker, you have to open a "Stop at" instruction, and then select the "Stopping Point" marker as location, not the siding marker where the "Stopping Point" is placed at instead. For example if you have a Stopping Point named say "Coal Train Stop" placed in a siding named "Yard 3", you have to select the location "Coal Train Stop @ Yard 3", not the location "Yard 3" instead.