Azimuth Angle and You

Discussion about RailWorks route design.

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:47 am

PapaXpress wrote:A bit more info: http://www.solarplots.info/pages/definitions.aspx

Azimuth.jpg


PapaXpress wrote:I think I am getting closer too with that new website I posted about. Clearly my initial assumption about moving the decimal over was wrong, but using some of the posts here I subtracted 120 from 150 (30), moved the decimal over by two (0.30), and made it negative (-0.30), and in game the sun is near 0 at noon.


I was wondering if someone (more than one person preferably) could test and confirm my findings. If this works I want to update the post up on my blog, so I don't lead people down the wrong path.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Paragon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:57 pm

I was wondering if someone (more than one person preferably) could test and confirm my findings. If this works I want to update the post up on my blog, so I don't lead people down the wrong path.


I used your technique to obtain satisfactory results. Consider:

Route Center: 36.34 -117.47

Season: Azimuth/Angle (math)

Winter: 60.9/-0.891 (150 - 60.9 = 89.1 )
Spring: 89.4/-0.606 (150 - 89.4 = 60.6)
Summer: 120.1/-0.299 (150 - 120.1 = 29.9)
Autumn: 89.2/-0.608 (150 - 89.2 = 60.8)

I did a lot of testing of all seasons in all time periods. Most importantly, I wanted to confirm the sun and moon were in the proper part of the sky, and it was clear early on in the testing we have it right. No northeast setting suns and such.

On a related question, do you know how to turn distant terrain black at night instead of the default white? Dusk goes along swimmingly well with blackened mountains, as they would normally look. Then night arrives and the mountains all look like 2 feet of snow fell in an instant. In the real world, they would remain dark. I know it's some combination of fog and dome lighting...right?

111005 Seasons.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Paragon
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:16 pm
Location: Silverdale, WA

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:15 pm

Thanks for testing it out for me, I will update my post tonight.

As for distant terrain, it sounds like you are running with the default settings. Try adding this to your texturing.bin file:

Code: Select all
<winterdistantterraincolour>
    <chccolour>
        <red d:alt_encoding="000000203534E43F" d:precision="string" d:type="sFloat32">0.6314</red>
        <green d:alt_encoding="00000060B1B1E13F" d:precision="string" d:type="sFloat32">0.5529</green>
        <blue d:alt_encoding="00000020DFDEDE3F" d:precision="string" d:type="sFloat32">0.4824</blue>
        <alpha d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string" d:type="sFloat32">0.0000</alpha>
    </chccolour>
</winterdistantterraincolour>


There is also SpringDistantTerrainColour and AutumnDistantTerrainColour. I speak about these values very briefly at the end of Part 4 post. These seem to be new (maybe they read my blog?) as of the HSC.
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Paragon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:30 pm

PapaExpress, that did the trick. Now it's scary-dark! Yah, your blog series is going to help a LOT of people out for sure. Pretty deep in the weeds.

!*cheers*!
User avatar
Paragon
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:16 pm
Location: Silverdale, WA

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Kali » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Grumble, that's a nice chart plot site, but I wish it wasn't locked to US timezones -_-
Kali
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:00 am
Location: England-by-Sea

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Unfortunately that site is the only one that seems to do the trick. I will try to look at the javascript and see if I can make a local version.
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Kali » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:15 pm

Might just download the whole page & edit the list :)

Hmm well editing the page is pointless, the calc isn't all there. Found http://pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properti ... calculator though.
Kali
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:00 am
Location: England-by-Sea

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:52 am

I only wish....
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Time-Lap ... 6336.shtml

oh, and lets add a train (just to stay on topic)
http://vimeo.com/16198274
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Bananarama » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:01 pm

Awesome! This looks like the same technology Discovery Channel used for their "Deadliest Catch" series. :D
Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains

Image
User avatar
Bananarama
 
Posts: 2749
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:17 am
Location: Another Planet

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby SMMDigital » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:27 pm

Thanks ladies and gentlemen for brining up this very interesting topic. I'm currently "under the hood" making some changes based on the guidelines here.

An astronomy question: Doesn't the moon follow the same plane across the sky as the sun and planets, or is is canted on a different orbit, like Pluto's is relative the Solar plane? The default values have the sun at Azimuth -1 and the moon at -.5.
SMMDigital
 

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Paragon » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:49 pm

SMMDigital wrote:An astronomy question: Doesn't the moon follow the same plane across the sky as the sun and planets, or is is canted on a different orbit, like Pluto's is relative the Solar plane? The default values have the sun at Azimuth -1 and the moon at -.5.


Yes, you can treat the moon as a "second sun" in terms of all the measurements discussed here. In both the sim and the real world, they share the same orbital pathway from the viewpoint of earth's surface, called the ecliptic plane. All the planets travel along this route as well.

What the sim does not do is mimic moon phases. Or, if it does, I am in the dark on the matter. Given that the default moon is always full, it would most appropriately always rise at sunset, and set at dawn.

What you can do is reverse the moon azimuth angles from what you have for the sun, Summer/Winter. This way, in winter, the full moon is high in the sky, as it is in real life. Ditto the low summer full moon.
User avatar
Paragon
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:16 pm
Location: Silverdale, WA

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:38 pm

You can get accurate moonrise and moonset from this site:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/a ... =-11&day=1

and it does not always need to be up during the night hours. *!!wink!!*
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby Toripony » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:53 pm

Is there any further info on the "Very Distant Terrain" settings?

I've begun tinkering with TOD files for the Alleghany; haven't had to do too much to get some good results. I've edited the azimuths with the .24, .67, and 1.08 values, applied the modified DistantTerrainColour settings posted here, and then just played with the fog settings for noon Summertime. The thing I don't like at the moment is that very distant mountain in bright blue (see 2nd screenie attached). I don't think that is from the DistantTerrainColour setting since the blue is already well choked there (1.3xxx vs. 2.3xxx for Red and Green). Any suggestions what I should try next? I plan to add SunGlare to whiten that blue Summer sky a little bit.

Screenshot_Copy of C&O Alleghany_37.74824--80.46426_12-00-05.jpg


Screenshot_Copy of C&O Alleghany_37.74824--80.46426_12-01-34.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Toripony
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:13 am

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby PapaXpress » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:46 am

Did you change the color of the fog?
Image
"Just post some random unrelated text. We have members here who can help you with that." ~ Chacal
"When all else fails, read the instructions... if that doesn't work either, try following them." ~ Old Prof
Image
The Grade Crossing - Atlanta North Project - Virtual Rail Creations
User avatar
PapaXpress
 
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: that "other" timezone

Re: Azimuth Angle and You

Unread postby gwgardner » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:54 am

Toripony wrote:Is there any further info on the "Very Distant Terrain" settings?

The thing I don't like at the moment is that very distant mountain in bright blue (see 2nd screenie attached). I don't think that is from the DistantTerrainColour setting since the blue is already well choked there (1.3xxx vs. 2.3xxx for Red and Green). Any suggestions what I should try next? I plan to add SunGlare to whiten that blue Summer sky a little bit.


I've never been to your neck of the woods, but many times driving from the flatlands of Texas into the mountainous regions of New Mexico and Colorado, I've seen the very distant mountains looking almost exactly like in your second screen shot. Perhaps just slightly lighter blue, but very close to that. Looks great to me.
gwgardner
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Route Design

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest