Powder River Basin

[Tomcat]

I m glad that you are back at it. I have been enjoying this for months.

Thanks AmericanSteam, glad you like it!

Converse Junction scenery getting filled in and fleshed out.

Screenshot_Powder River Basin_43.45770--105.33409_17-50-29.jpg

Screenshot_Powder River Basin_43.45945--105.33366_17-49-04.jpg

Screenshot_Powder River Basin_43.45660--105.33463_17-49-06.jpg

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[gtrtroger]

[imnew]

Perfect

[Tomcat]

Perfect

I've been meaning to mention some weird behavior, since I started the PRB, when using the offset tool from track laid with easements enabled, but I thought it might be just me and I should try whatever I could think of to get around the problem before bringing it up. Well, I've tried everything that crossed my brain and still no joy. Maybe someone else has encountered this and has some advice, though at this point I think it's just a quirk in the programming.

First screenshot shows the result of using the offset tool on an easement-enabled curve in order to lay an access road right next to the tracks. Almost the entire extent of the Orin Subdivision has these access roads on both sides of the tracks.

Offset01.jpg

Notice that the section is broken in multiple places and that each piece is now tilted. I have found no way to fix this, the entire section must be deleted and relaid freehand. This happens at least half the time and sometimes it's both sides of the track and other times it might be just the inside or outside of the curve.

Second screenshot shows even weirder behavior when you start to delete the broken sections - road folds over, flips upside down and connects to another broken section somewhere on the curve.

Offset02.jpg

Now, this is not a huge problem when laying the access roads. Like I've said, I can lay them freehand. Freehand takes longer but not an insane amount longer. The real problem is when I try to offset another piece of track off of an easement-enabled curve because laying track freehand trying to match already existing track is insane.

Why am I trying to do that rather than just laying multiple tracks at the same time?

Because the spacing between the mains on the PRB changes in many places, for instance, much of the way between Nacco Junction and Bill the 4 mains are not equally spaced being in more of a 2 X 2 arrangement with mains 2 and 3 being a meter or 2 further apart than main 1+2 or 3+4. So, you ask, why don't I use some basic math and decrease the track spacing while increasing the number of tracks and then delete the tracks I don't need in order to get the spacing I want?

Well, this brings up another really frustrating aspect of laying easements - there is a known problem when easements are enabled where the track may break and is immune to welding or being remedied by using the join tool, and it seems to me, the more tracks you lay at once the more often 1 or more of the tracks will break and you'll have to rework the curve from scratch. The first I became aware of this bug was when watching a track laying tutorial by cactusjuice several years ago and he encounters the bug and suggests laying shorter pieces of track to get past the bad section - I prefer reworking the previous curve over making shorter track sections.

If anyone has any insight about offsetting from track with easements I'd appreciate any input.

[DanSSG]

Notice that the section is broken in multiple places and that each piece is now tilted. I have found no way to fix this, the entire section must be deleted and relaid freehand. This happens at least half the time and sometimes it's both sides of the track and other times it might be just the inside or outside of the curve.

Second screenshot shows even weirder behavior when you start to delete the broken sections - road folds over, flips upside down and connects to another broken section somewhere on the curve.

I just tried to reproduce this situation but at least with some random DTG stuff everything looked OK. The same on a route I made before I started with the Cheyenne route which used easements and superelevation. If the road gets tilted just disable the superelevation on the section of track, place the road via offset and then enable the superelevation on the track again.

[Tomcat]

I just tried to reproduce this situation but at least with some random DTG stuff everything looked OK. The same on a route I made before I started with the Cheyenne route which used easements and superelevation. If the road gets tilted just disable the superelevation on the section of track, place the road via offset and then enable the superelevation on the track again.

It doesn't seem to matter whether superelevation is enabled, just whether the curve has been laid with easements enabled. The shots above are before I selected the curves and checked superelevation. I did a bit of playing around this morning on a blank test route that was completely flat. First I used Soldier Summit track and was able to lay 4 parallel tracks for 4 miles, with many curves, with easements enabled and nothing broke. I tried again with NEC track with the same result.

Then I figured since track on a real world route, and on the PRB, rarely has a gradient of 0.0% I would try laying track with a 1% gradient. I used the track I use for the PRB, BNSF: C1 Mainline, from 3DTrains Tehachapi Pass. This time, about a mile in on the second curve, 2 of the 4 tracks broke. See screenshot below - I placed a large pine tree under the tracks to show that the track was indeed elevated to that height after a mile otherwise it's really hard to tell on a flat, featureless landscape if the track is on or above the ground.

Offset03.jpg

One other note: The track above was laid going towards the camera position and you can see the the 2 outside (nearest) tracks are broken. I've never seen, when laying multiple tracks, the primary track, the track the placement guides radiate from, break, it's always the outermost tracks that break - sometimes all but the primary track.

Here is a link to the cactusjuice tutorial on easements that I watched 3 or 4 years ago and at 15:35 he starts to talk about this problem and encounters it while using TSA: USA Track.



And a couple of Steam forum posts about the 'easement tool bug':

https://steamcommunity.com/app/24010/di ... 446680726/

and

https://steamcommunity.com/app/24010/di ... 888371234/


I probably could have had the track for the entire route done in early 2018 if not for this problem. As it is, I now have an aversion to laying track and can only tolerate fighting to put down 10 miles or so every other month. The upside is that as I release each phase it winds up mostly decorated since I prefer that to the frustration that's generated when placing track.

[BoostedFridge]

I'm going to try to dig into this. Most of my experience is unfortunately with single track routes, so I haven't experience this yet. I'll PM any follow up questions.

[Tomcat]

Thanks BoostedFridge.

I've been dealing with this problem since MP 3 on the PRB and I suspect I'll be wrestling with it for the next several hundred miles, well, except once past Shawnee Junction and on through the Canyon Subdivision where it's almost all single track. And I should mention that I've never had the problem on easement laid single track... or any number of tracks laid simultaneously without easements. I won't be surprised if you encounter the bug and on the other hand I won't be surprised if you don't. Quirky behavior seems to be magnetically attracted to me.

[Tomcat]

Screenshot_Powder River Basin_43.63035--105.36199_09-06-20.jpg

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Looking great as always.

Are you using the 64 bits editor? Or were those problems with easements on multiple tracks also present in the previous 32 bits editor?

[DanSSG]

The youtube video is from 2016 where a 64bit TS didn't exist yet. So this bug seems to happen on both versions.

[gtrtroger]

That Santa Fe Bluebonnet looks pretty d@&% good against the Wyoming backdrop.....

[Tomcat]

Looking great as always.

Are you using the 64 bits editor? Or were those problems with easements on multiple tracks also present in the previous 32 bits editor?

Thanks Edwin.

I only edit in 32 bit. I'm very leery of using 64 bit for anything other than running scenarios.

The youtube video is from 2016 where a 64bit TS didn't exist yet. So this bug seems to happen on both versions.

I'll have to play around on a test route using 64 bit and see if it is any better.

That Santa Fe Bluebonnet looks pretty d@&% good against the Wyoming backdrop.....

My thought exactly!

[Tomcat]

Taking a break from the Orin for an hour, messing around, and getting ahead of myself here... by about 80 miles!

Looking South, down at the Northern entrance of Wendover Canyon on the Canyon Subdivision. The North Platte River will eventually flow in the valley just left of center with the track a handful of meters above and to the right of it.

This is what drew me in to the PRB a couple of years ago. For my money you can't beat railroad track next to a whitewater river at the base of a cliff-lined valley.

We'll see how this all comes together in about a year or so.

Screenshot_Powder River Basin_42.38390--104.92015_08-30-33.jpg

[kris120]

Hi Tomcat !
Regarding your problem with the lofts parallel to the tracks :
I had several times the same problems when I was route-building some years ago.
In my opinion it is a problem of the offset-tool, as it cannot handle trackrules and the distant in a geometrically correct way.
Lofts require trackrules like tracks for the easements.
Whenever you place a parallel loft or track (it's the same regarding to this situation) on the outer side of a curve, the length of the final easement should be longer like the track you use as a template. This is not considered at all by the TS editor.

With lofts you are lucky as they have not been laid so exactly like tracks. Just lay them by hand in the final step:

I used the parallel tool as far as possible, mostly the first easement at the beginning of the curve and the main part of the curve with constant radius is working.
Extend the curve with the loft without changing the radius.
In the final step lay the final easement of the loft with testing different starting points in the extended part (with tracks this can be quite challenging as it has to be very exact!).
Cut away the rest of the curve which is not needed.
With CTRL+Click you can melt several parts of a loft.
If melting does not work delete the fist extend, lay it by new up to the easement, delete the easement and lay the easement by new.
Consider to use the same or similar trackrule and grade like the track next to the loft (when laying tracks with this method, the trackrules have to be the same).

Kris

By the way: A very impressive route. One of my favourites. Thanks for sharing !