Railworks America

This is not a post bashing on Dovetail, in fact I really like what they’ve been doing to the (old?) Train Simulator to keep it going. However, what’s going on with TSW? I bought the game early on and returned it, although I’ve been waiting for a reason to jump back in and buy it. However there just aren’t any US routes or even additions to the game in general that give me any incentive to take out my wallet. It seems like they’re pumping out better US content for the older sim (again, not complaining), but the content they’ve made for TSW seems a bit stale. I also can’t tell what the incentive, if this is a simulator or a RPG. I really hope better content and updates (the editor) are coming soon.

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse- but this horse shouldn’t be dead yet!

TSW so far has found better use as a short line or commuter line sim where it's better for taking advantage of the walking mechanics on passenger stock and throwing switches. Sitting in the cab of the ac44 the entire time basically defeats the point of the new mechanic which is 1 of the 2 big selling points for the game besides the unreal engine. Now while railroads like that are common in Europe, the same can't be said about American short lines. Very few American short line companies carry the same weight nationwide that many UK branch lines do.

Where I live, I think the Delaware Lackawanna is basically the coolest short line ever but someone out west may not care about a tiny 50ish mile niche line in northeast PA and vise versa. This is also the same problem with TSXX in general.

There is something to be said about the apparent "staleness" of TSW when it comes to US content. Yes, there is more content being released for TS2020, but that is because it is open for 3rd party development. TSW is locked down... even though DTG keeps promising editors. Open up TSW to modding and 3rd party content developers, and I think TSW will really spring to life.

I feel DTG boxed themselves into corner when the decision was made to port TSW over to console games in addition to PC platforms. Both the Unreal and Unity game development environments allow for multiple platform porting from the same code base. But, the console market is probably more interested in running trains instead of modding content. Whereas the PC market is interested in both modding and running. But because it is a common code base for the platforms, any editor has to be functional in both console and PC environments. I suspect DTG has discovered with the wide differences in user interfaces between the environments, getting an editor to work and be functional for non-Unreal developer users is proving more difficult than anticipated.

The solution is to create a PC specific code base, and concentrate editor / modding tools in the PC platform only. Leave the console code base as strictly a locked down / no modding environment. Yes, it is 2 code bases to maintain when it comes to common functionality across platforms. But I think they'll find it easier to build out the modding tools in a single platform.

If you're looking for a US route in TSW to convince you to jump back in, check out the Caltrain / Peninsula Corridor route. I personally think it is the best US route for TSW so far. If purchased at a deep discount during one of the many sales DTG seems to be having these days, you really can't go wrong as long as your hardware supports TSW. I find the German routes also enjoyable just for running.

I think DTG has to make a choice pretty soon about how to develop both games using their resources in both finance and staff terms.

TSxx content IMO is getting paler with shorter less detailed routes, esp the Germany ones, recycled rolling stock and no real enhanced game play features.

USA routes aren't much better off IMO. Third party and amateur routes top most of DTG 's effort.

UK routes seem to fare better, and BR Blue and evennstrsm era sells well.

We'll see about TSW, I don't know how the console players actually reward the game or what they particularly demand from it.

Many PC players that come from TSxx want to get their hands dirty, i.e. they want to get creative using the editor.

But DTG keeps postponing it, citing all kinds of difficulty in uncoiling the assets?

You guys couldn't be more wrong about consoles. The player base on PS4 alone is nearly ten times that of us PC peons.

Quite right and nobody disputes this.
The point being made was that the typical console player tends to be just a player, not a modder.

cnwfan wrote:The solution is to create a PC specific code base, and concentrate editor / modding tools in the PC platform only. Leave the console code base as strictly a locked down / no modding environment. Yes, it is 2 code bases to maintain when it comes to common functionality across platforms. But I think they'll find it easier to build out the modding tools in a single platform.

It's not 2 code bases. The game is a single (or almost single) code base compiled for two platforms.
For a Unity-based game, modding tools are just add-ons to the vanilla Unity editor.
So for making your own TS engine or route, you'd need to install the Unity editor and any custom "editors" (plug-ins) made by DTG.
The Unity editor doesn't exist for console AFAIK, and for good reason: it wouldn't make any sense.

BNSFdude wrote:You guys couldn't be more wrong about consoles. The player base on PS4 alone is nearly ten times that of us PC peons.

Are you sure? Any figures or statistics to support your claim?

This explains a lot, why every new DLC is like a level to a base game, perhaps even why there is no real incentive to advance the PC game into a simulation that allows user creativity.
Any editor, more powerful audio support system, better physics, weather models, custom controller support, VR, many of this will require huge programming efforts to add it to UE4 and when the consoles don't support it, why bother from a commercial point of view.

On the other hand, its nice for DTG to find a niche in the console market and earn some profits from it. They are a business after all.

Next DLC could be USA again, but CSX-HH still needs major updates like those silly too short brake hoses, the GP40 still needs updated physics, NEC-NY signaling, catenary, etc etc.

We'll see what comes next.

PS4: 105k confirmed owners, All time peak unknown. Source: http://gamstat.com/games/Train_Sim_World/
Likely the same on Xbox.
So guesstimate 210k sales of the base game alone on consoles.

PC: 1,933 All Time Peak, ~100,000 owners Citation: https://steamdb.info/app/530070/graphs/

2:1, so excuse me for my incorrect initial math. If I had access to all-time peak for both consoles, I'm still pretty sure you'd have a number far greater than the paltry numbers on PC. My point still stands, we aren't the market that is paying money here.

I will agree with your sentiments above though. Also, from experience, going back and fixing things doesn't make them any money so unless it's totally broken, they won't spend the time to fix it properly. The HH update they tried still wasn't correct.

BNSFdude wrote:Also, from experience, going back and fixing things doesn't make them any money so unless it's totally broken, they won't spend the time to fix it properly.

Yea... I run into this even at the enterprise level where we pay thousands of dollars every year for support (I could buy a car for what we spend). Even then, getting bug fixes pushed through is like pulling teeth, and if often takes a year or more.

This maybe unpopular, but maybe there needs to be an adjustment in the revenue stream for DTG. My thought would be each user could buy support for $xx.xx per year. This entitles the user to unlimited bug fixes and enhancements to any DTG content that they own (both DTG created and 3rd party created) during the support term. If content is by a 3rd party, DTG agrees to pay the developer $xx.xx amount per year per content piece for support and enhancements. If user doesn't pay support, then they get the initial content download for what they purchase, but no fixes or enhancements.

I know there would be a lot more details to work through, but I feel that if there is a financial incentive to support and enhancement existing product, DTG would allocate more resources at that side of the product line.

For what it's worth, the lack of an Editor in TSW is the reason I left train-simming altogether. I didn't like creating content for TSxx with the feeling that an Editor-drop in TSW could make it all obsolete overnight. It was either step up and create for the new game/engine, or step out. I got tired of waiting.

ForceGhost wrote:...I didn't like creating content for TSxx with the feeling that an Editor-drop in TSW could make it all obsolete overnight. ...

Even if a TSW editor becomes a thing one day, that doesn't mean the end for all other, older sims. Heck, people are still developing content for MSTS and that's well over fifteen years old by now.

I think there will be a niche TS20xx development for quite some time. And if it's only because the new sim is even more daunting to develop stuff for! Just look at the insane detailing of the models, I doubt many of us would have the skills and/or patience to build stuff like that. In the older titles, we can get away with simpler models and routes. In TSW, that might not be so easy.

Just my

Cheers
Michael

I agree with you Michael. With the enormous amount of content available for TSxxxx I think it's going to have a very long shelf life. Personally I stuck with FS2004 long after FSX came came out because there were so many options with it that took a long tome for FSX to catch up and in that case there was a lot of forward compatibility. It's going to take a lot to drag over to the new sim but different strokes for different folks.

I think the missing user tools (and thus full Steam Workshop support) is by far the biggest thorn in TSW's side right now. Because there aren't even any user-created scenarios, the value proposition for me just isn't there. I know I'm only going to get whatever an add-on comes with and that's it - once I've played the included stuff, it's all just replaying the same things over and over.

It just puzzles me how the last US route was released in August, and there’s still no sign of upcoming content. It seems like they’ve had success with their UK and EU routes, and being that they’re a UK based team Iunderstand why they’d like developing that content. However when we’ve already had Caltrain and the same NEC route made for the previous sim, the only real fresh content we’ve had is LIRR and Heavy Haul since 2017. I don’t want to add to the complainers about the game, but I feel like US content has been put on the back burner when DTG doesn’t realize the potential market waiting for them to revive our interest in the game.

I’m sure the console players of TSW have become a huge market for the game too, which is probably why the editor doesn’t seem like a top priority as much as it was. In Dec 2018 the editor was “coming soon”, now there hasn’t been news in a year. It’s just a bit frustrating.

Tsw is a huge market for the console. Latter months thats apparent, the game is limited by the console. Pc used to get priority releases, now its always console first.

Feels as if they build for the boxes and pc is afterthought. They claim the route length isnt hindered by console prowess but "time and resources used" to create a length.

I started with csx hh at launch but got stale quickly, then my late to the party addiction to TS began

The headsway has added a degree of intrigue for me, hopped on tonight and drove the 4400 on SPG and it, with the "physics" upgrade as of late did feel better


So long as theres no editor, it will flounder for pc. Think of the box camp screaming about no editor for them (i have an xbox btw, not completely biased ) if pc got one.

Heres to hoping