Operation problems with TSW.

[SandpatchConductor]

I work as a conductor out of Cumberland both west to New Castle (over Sandpatch) and east to Baltimore and there are a lot of operations problems with this that even regular railfans would know. So this is my list of problems from Cumberland to Rockwood that kind of ruin things for me.

Locomotive service center speed limits are 5 mph not 10.
Though freight trains west bound don't recrew at the VA lane Signal. They recrew at Mexico, the "blue room", the Hump, the "safety stop" and the Amtrak station.
the speed between VA ave and Franklin St is all 25mph not 15.
crossover at Viaduct is 25 mph (track speed) not 20.
Leaving the yard west off of the freight track you will get a slow clear (single green bulb on dwarf single) not restricting.
Cumberland is a quiet zone, no whistle post and bell only though town

everything is good from the "bud Board" to Hyndman.

After Hyndman the prevailing grade is 1.94% the steepest is from hogback rd to Fairhope rd at just over 2% grade, then is levels off some. To about 1.4% up to NA with an almost complete leveling off at "the Sag" just west of Glencoe. Then the grade goes back to just below 2% from NA to Manilla.

1 track (right track traveling west) from Hogback rd to east of Sandpatch tunnel is 25 mph the whole way.
2 track (left track traveling west)from Hogback rd to Glencoe is 30mph, from Glencoe to NA 35, then 30 again to the top.

the siding from Yoder to Garrett is not used for regular trains. Though the curve there isn't enough clearance for trains to pass, The siding is used to park Maintenance Away trains and helper engines if the helper crew doesn't have enough time to make it back to Cumberland, or Connellsville.

The swithches at Rockwood are all hand throw and there are derails on both legs of the wye. Also the signals at Rockwood station where removed about 7-8 years ago.

And the big one that gets me is GP40s are not used as main line power on trains. Every train that leaves Cumberland has a minimum of 2 six axle motors.

This is just from my first few ours with the game and probably not a complete list.

Anyone have any other question feel free to ask.

[gwgardner]

Thanks for the info. It's very interesting to see the differences between real world and simulator. As someone not involved in real railroading, the differences don't matter much, don't degrade the sim for me at least, but I can see how it might be annoying to you.

I wonder if DTG would be willing to make changes per your real-world experience on the route.

Or else, when the editor comes out, maybe you can make the changes yourself or advise someone else to do it.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Being a conductor that works the route, can you supply us with a recent track plan, grade chart and other information for the user guide?

[OldProf]

Isn't there such a thing as knowing too much? The more time I spent as a theatrical set and lighting designer, the less I enjoyed actually attending theatrical performances because little details that only someone with that experience would notice took my attention away from the performance itself.

[Derek]

Hiya,

We certainly have a huge team of enthusiasts and we connect with many who drive and work the railways in different countries, however local knowledge is king.
We are always happy to be schooled. we work with as many industry people we know and can get information from.
Real life, software and logistics, then come together to scrap it out. :)

Please feel free to PM me and I can certainly connect you with the project producer who would be your first port of call.

regards

Derek

(Art Director, DTG)

[SandpatchConductor]

Being a conductor that works the route, can you supply us with a recent track plan, grade chart and other information for the user guide?

I maybe able to soon we have a new rule book coming out very soon. I don't know how the company feels about release of out of date material. I do know that current material is all listed as propitiatory information, and not for public release.

I have a book of employee drawn maps, that cover all of Baltimore Division. I'll try and dig the book out tomorrow.

[SandpatchConductor]

Isn't there such a thing as knowing too much? The more time I spent as a theatrical set and lighting designer, the less I enjoyed actually attending theatrical performances because little details that only someone with that experience would notice took my attention away from the performance itself.

I know what you mean about this after 12 years in the Army I cannot watch war movies, i notice every little time mistake on uniforms and with weapons. But with this knowing how much skill it takes engineers to run todays 15,000 to 19,000 tons trains up and especially down the east slope of Sandpatch, it makes the simulation more fun. This is one of 2 places I know of that a computer cannot run the train (the other one being 17 mile grade on the Mountain Sub being the other)

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Being a conductor that works the route, can you supply us with a recent track plan, grade chart and other information for the user guide?

I maybe able to soon we have a new rule book coming out very soon. I don't know how the company feels about release of out of date material. I do know that current material is all listed as propitiatory information, and not for public release.

I have a book of employee drawn maps, that cover all of Baltimore Division. I'll try and dig the book out tomorrow.

I've been able to find a 2014 CSX rule book on line, that's probably recent enough.
CSX ABTH from 2004, if it includes the ES44 locomotives, it is probably recent enough also.
We only need a few rules pertaining to do's and don't in train make up, etc. How to make up those trains over 15000 tons with DPU, that kind of stuff.

However, the latest track plan is from 2005 and we don't know how DTG got their layout, Google Earth?

What would be nice is a track plan with signal locations, names of control points, stations, road crossings, tunnels, major water crossings, etc. to help in orientation.
Speed limits, speed through crossovers and switches, length of sidings, grades.

The TSW layout might not match that prototype track plan from 2005, so it has to be drawn anew. What drawing software and what symbols to use?

[GERUNIMO625]

Howdy Folks,

Isn't there such a thing as knowing too much? The more time I spent as a theatrical set and lighting designer, the less I enjoyed actually attending theatrical performances because little details that only someone with that experience would notice took my attention away from the performance itself.

I was just contemplating this myself the other day. When I was younger I was heavily into Flight Simulation and spent quite a bit of time and money making the Sim as real as I could get it. It got to the point where I would be sitting on the ramp, waiting for pushback from the gate and looking at my watch saying: "Dang it! I'm 10 minutes late already!" I came to realize two things: 1) I'm a super nerd. 2) This had become a job for me and I wasn't even getting paid! So I hung up my captain's hat and moved on. As a UP conductor this is why I avoid anything Class 1 related in this game genre, I learned my lesson. I try to stick to steam or foreign operations, things I know little to nothing about

I know what you mean about this after 12 years in the Army I cannot watch war movies, i notice every little time mistake on uniforms and with weapons. But with this knowing how much skill it takes engineers to run todays 15,000 to 19,000 tons trains up and especially down the east slope of Sandpatch, it makes the simulation more fun. This is one of 2 places I know of that a computer cannot run the train (the other one being 17 mile grade on the Mountain Sub being the other)

No kidding! I was 11B for 10 years and I feel the same way, about most war movies. Except for the HBO series 'Band of Brothers' that was pretty spot on, best example I can think of anyway. Nice to meet another Army guy! Too many Marines around here
Welcome to the party!

P.S. Come to think of it, the Army pretty much ruined camping for me too! HAHA!

[artimrj]

OORAH!!!

[ssbobz]

Semper Fi

[SandpatchConductor]

Being a conductor that works the route, can you supply us with a recent track plan, grade chart and other information for the user guide?

I maybe able to soon we have a new rule book coming out very soon. I don't know how the company feels about release of out of date material. I do know that current material is all listed as propitiatory information, and not for public release.

I have a book of employee drawn maps, that cover all of Baltimore Division. I'll try and dig the book out tomorrow.

I've been able to find a 2014 CSX rule book on line, that's probably recent enough.
CSX ABTH from 2004, if it includes the ES44 locomotives, it is probably recent enough also.
We only need a few rules pertaining to do's and don't in train make up, etc. How to make up those trains over 15000 tons with DPU, that kind of stuff.

However, the latest track plan is from 2005 and we don't know how DTG got their layout, Google Earth?

What would be nice is a track plan with signal locations, names of control points, stations, road crossings, tunnels, major water crossings, etc. to help in orientation.
Speed limits, speed through crossovers and switches, length of sidings, grades.

The TSW layout might not match that prototype track plan from 2005, so it has to be drawn anew. What drawing software and what symbols to use?

The current ABTH is 2010 and ES44s are in there, i doubt they are in the 04 book.
I could take pictures from the current TT and Email them to you.

Train makeup is fairly easy, no more than 5 loads behind a block of 30 empties, and no more the 3500 tons behind the first restricted long empty car (89 foot or longer cars) with out the addition of a helper, then you can have 6200 ton max behind the first restricted long car.

The biggest thing we have to worry about is tonnage rating (how much it can pull up the hill) for each engine, for instance the engines that came with the game:
CW44AC is worth 3650 tons west out of cumberland and 5050 east out of Connelsville
SD40-2 is 2500 and 3450
GP38 is 1350 and 1900

Also i don't have anything that list grades, CSX just refers to them as more than 1% grade for 3 continuous miles or more than 2% for 2 miles.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The current ABTH is 2010 and ES44s are in there, i doubt they are in the 04 book.
I could take pictures from the current TT and Email them to you.

Train makeup is fairly easy, no more than 5 loads behind a block of 30 empties, and no more the 3500 tons behind the first restricted long empty car (89 foot or longer cars) with out the addition of a helper, then you can have 6200 ton max behind the first restricted long car.

The biggest thing we have to worry about is tonnage rating (how much it can pull up the hill) for each engine, for instance the engines that came with the game:
CW44AC is worth 3650 tons west out of cumberland and 5050 east out of Connelsville
SD40-2 is 2500 and 3450
GP38 is 1350 and 1900

Also i don't have anything that list grades, CSX just refers to them as more than 1% grade for 3 continuous miles or more than 2% for 2 miles.

I've found the 2010 ABTH online.

Given those ratings, four AC4400 are needed for a 15000-16000 trailing tonnage train. Six for a 19000 trailing tonnage train, the maximum allowed, or will CSX make you do with 5 units?

Salisbury industrial track still is out of bounds for six axle locomotives?

If your recent ETT differs significantly from the 2005 online version, perhaps you could scan the pages relevant to the Keystone Sub track plan and Sand Patch train makeup and handling?

Google Earth will supply the geographical details.

[SandpatchConductor]

I've found the 2010 ABTH online.

Given those ratings, four AC4400 are needed for a 15000-16000 trailing tonnage train. Six for a 19000 trailing tonnage train, the maximum allowed, or will CSX make you do with 5 units?

Salisbury industrial track still is out of bounds for six axle locomotives?

If your recent ETT differs significantly from the 2005 online version, perhaps you could scan the pages relevant to the Keystone Sub track plan and Sand Patch train makeup and handling?

Google Earth will supply the geographical details.

West Bound trains are limited to 14500 tons for manifest and 17000 for unit trains. East bound don't have any limits. Csx only allows 27 power and dynamic axles on the head end and the axle value for each type of engine is based on tractive effort not just the number of axles the engine has. For instance the CW44AC/AH is worth 9 Axles in both power and dynamic, where as a a CW40-8 is worth 7 axles in both power and dynamic and both only have 6 actual axles. the biggest helper power out of cumberland is CW40-8, single unit for manifest trains and 2 units for unit trains.

the Salisbury IT is listed as excepted track (5 MPH) but no axle restriction. On a side note I have never seen it used for anything other than setting defect cars out of a train or storing MOW equipment.
The current TT is July 2016 and already has more than 300 changes though division and company bulletins. Speeds in it are correct but train makeup has changed so much to run bigger trains the current TT is obsolete for that. And now we don't know what EHH is going to change.