Completely Incorrect throttle/amperage modelling

[sd40Driver]

Well if the physics in TSW are correct and do not require further attention from the developers, then am I right in assuming the physics in TS2017 must be incorrect? I think it's the other way round, not perfect but better.

Neither game's physics are at the level of Run8, the touchstone when it comes to US train handling and its simulated physics.
TSW's are better than TS2017's, but still need lots of improvements.

At present, the (advanced) brakes and throttle in TS2017 are a heckuvalot better than in TSW.

I can confirm this. There's really nothing close to correct about the physics in TSW. But trust me, the brakes are just as broken as the throttle. In general, the locomotives are way too powerful, and the brakes are way too strong. Of course, there are many other details in both systems that dont work correctly, dont display on the gauges correctly, or are not implemented at all. Mike's modified brakes are much better than what's in TSW. Recently released locos in TS2017 are far superior than those in TSW.

[buzz456]

"I am surprised CSX hasn't picked up the flaws."

You really think anyone other than a bunch of corporate lawyer drones care anything about this? Good luck with that.

[PapaXpress]

Actually Buzz you would be surprised what NS wanted Jerry to prove to them when he was trying to get a license from them. The paint and details (A/C, horn, bell, etc, type/placement) had to be almost spot on. I am not sure what the final solution was. We did show them a beta version of the textured model. I think all they really wanted to know is that we were serious about getting it right.

I have the emails archived. It was surprising, refreshing and frustrating to talk to someone who not only worked for the railroad, was a foamer of said railroad, and also issued licenses for it.

[buzz456]

If anyone working for me was spending time on such trivia and I found out they would summarily terminated for having way too much time on their hands.

[PapaXpress]

Perhaps that is why we haven't heard from him in awhile.

[buzz456]

Probably most of the trivia people at CSX are keeping their heads down now that Hunter Harrison is in the building. Could be something good comes out of his taking over. Time will tell.

[sd40Driver]

Most of us would be very surprised how much railroads care about fidelity when it comes to plastic models and (I would assume) digital simulators. I've got a buddy who works for an model train company and he said every single product produced under license has to go through a detailed proofing process with the railroad. Some roads are more involved than others, but I'd bet you that CSX is paying attention, if not actually putting some pressure on DTG to get the throttle fixed. Bottom line, right now, it makes their locomotives look defective/inferior. I imagine they care about their image, and if players are soured by incorrect throttle modeling, in a very small way it damages CSX's brand, and this is what corporate brand lawyers / communications directors get paid to resolve.

DTG_James [developer] 1 hour ago on Steam Forums
Straight from the dev team:

We are aware of the issue and it's on our list to investigate, it's a complex issue but we are working with engineers to understand it and improve it. Unfortunately, we can't give a solid timeframe for when a resolution for this issue will be released.

- Jay

It is very bizarre (as several have said) that they got this right for years with the TS franchise, and now they seem completely and utterly baffled by it all. To the point that they don't even know how the amperage/brakes should work, going back and forth on making a decision regarding what should or shouldnt be fixed. Its almost like the TSW team is a completely different production team, brand new, having never worked with trains before. Maybe the fishing sim team was assigned TSW.

I would love to know what "engineers" they're working with and what they run. I'd bet they dont have experience on American diesel electrics.

[buzz456]

" I imagine they care about their image, and if players are soured by incorrect throttle modeling, in a very small way it damages CSX's brand, and this is what corporate brand lawyers / communications directors get paid to resolve."

Which is a load of corporate horseS*@t which I have spent my entire professional career fighting. Bogus make work nonsense which has nothing to do with anything useful. Creating nothing instead of just being the best you can be at what you do and letting the excellent results speak for its self.

[sd40Driver]

Just to be clear, I personally agree with you Buzz. Penny pinching and a disconnect from reality drives this stuff, ironically, because it causes corporate waste in itself. I wont say too much to implicate me in anything, but lets just say "ive heard" that many supervisors spend ALL DAY reviewing camera footage from locomotive cabs trying to catch a trainman in what appears to be a rule violation. Even if its just taking their phone out to check the time, or reading the label on his or her water bottle. If its not strictly 100% railroad related, and railroad material that they're looking at, they are not supposed to read it/look at it/interact with it. I've even "heard of" trainmen getting rules infractions for using their cell phones to call emergency services after an injury/accident. Without the unions, the railroads would literally push out all their employees.

BTW: HH shutting down the hump yards and putting 20% of CSX on the chopping block is definitely not going to be good for anyone. Some crews cant even get on/off trains and routes have already been clogged up because he shut down the crew shuttle van contracts. Even Cumberland yard, as modeled in TSW, is no longer an operational hump yard now.

I'm aware I'm "too close" to the reality of operating a locomotive to be considered DTG's target customer. But, for most customers, it seems as though it would be prudent of them to work on fidelity more. And for some, the modelling right now is just fine as Peter stated above. Right now I'm just mostly lurking in the background every once in a while with a bowl of popcorn to see if DTG can figure it out. If they can, cool! I can enjoy this sim a little. And use it to show friends and family what I do and let them have a try at it. If not, oh well.

[Derek]

Hi,
interesting thread indeed.
Nothing is easy when it comes to simulation entertainment and software development.

Fidelity (visual and functionality) as well as accessibility has always been on our agenda and over the years we have pushed ourselves and all around us to do better.
As we progress so will our developments, nothing but hard work ahead we know but this is just the start.

regards
Derek

[sd40Driver]

I think DTG should have load sheets so the Engineer can see his load, tonnage and length.

This is a good idea to help make this a "sim" instead of "game". Call it a manifest, load sheet, etc., no engineer would take a freight train anywhere down the road without access to this info in reality. Should be easy enough to implement.

James

[Derek]

It's a hobby and an obsession, It's entertainment and it's a simulator that can also be enjoyed as a game and just played if so desired. It can be and grow into whatever you want it to be.
d

[trev123]

I think DTG should have load sheets so the Engineer can see his load, tonnage and length.

This is a good idea to help make this a "sim" instead of "game". Call it a manifest, load sheet, etc., no engineer would take a freight train anywhere down the road without access to this info in reality. Should be easy enough to implement.

James

The thing is that lots of people would just rather prefer to have it as a game. I know of people who would just rather get in the cab, and put the reverser forward, let off the brakes, and open the throttle, they are not interested in pushing buttons and flicking switches. So basically DTG have got to find a compromise between the two.

[BNSFdude]

The compromise is to make everything work at base level like it should, then have difficulty scaling by letting some functions be automatic with a difficulty selector..

Want to start the locomotive manually, then get everything ready, do an air test and depart? Sure! Here's a wheel report so you can check your list prior to departing too.

Want to get on and drive? Sure, just move the difficulty down and away you go.

The problem with TSW is that the basic fundamentals OF railroad simulation are all so borked that you can't do either correctly.
Air brakes don't function as they should, you can't bleed cars to switch or hump them, the throttle and dynamic brake problems, etc.

Whatever engineers DTG have been in talks with sure don't know what they're talking about if what their input is what garnered us the game we have now.

[sd40Driver]

The thing is that lots of people would just rather prefer to have it as a game. I know of people who would just rather get in the cab, and put the reverser forward, let off the brakes, and open the throttle, they are not interested in pushing buttons and flicking switches. So basically DTG have got to find a compromise between the two.

True, but if it wouldnt take much effort to implement this, it wouldnt impede those who just want to play it as a game. It would have no bearing or interconnections. But, for those who would want to refer to the data, it would be helpful.