TSW Survey

[bnsfsubdivision]

As I said in a post a few months back, I believe that DTG missed the mark on their consumer research. I believe they still don't get it. Why all the questions on the survey about operational tutorials? Are they really so arrogant that they believe they created a masterpiece and the reason no one plays it is that they don't know how? Maybe DTG, it's because they are bored stiff! I believe that anyone that stays interested in this hobby for any length of time wants to engage in creating something. Routes, assets, scenarios, reskins, sounds, etc. Without tools and a software architecture that allows creative engagement, a rail simming franchise will be limited to a small group of prototypical perfectionist (Run 8), or a fleeting audience of casual gamers (TSW), neither of which are most likely commercially viable business models. Releasing the game with no way to create or easily modify anything I believe has proven to be a flop. They would have been much better off following a path much like N3V did with Trainz and update the TS architecture to a modern graphics library, and improve the core physics. Trainz now has a graphics engine that rivals TSW and has backwards compatibility with almost every asset in the history of the game. What Trainz doesn't have is the quality content, workshop scenarios and realistic immersion that TS has. That's why it's still mainly a no go for me. Did choosing UE4 back DTG into a corner with an overly complex architecture that will make casual creative engagement near impossible? I would say it seems like it did. Gamers with consoles will ditch TSW after a few hours of play from sheer boredom and word spreads quickly in that community that it's a dud. Serious hobby train simmers will ditch anything that won't EASILY allow tinkering and creating. Marketing rule #1: Know thy audience!

Well said!

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Quite true, most of us 'like to play with trains', creating a virtual (model) railroad.
While DTG think we want to trespass on railroad property hunting for collectibles, LOL
Scenarios, when properly designed, can be kind of challenging, Services tend to get boring very quickly. Apart from the visuals, none of the weather settings have any effect on train handling.

Do any of those routes mentioned in the survey require different licenses? I cannot view that survey anymore, but I remember there was Tehachapi, which is BNSF??
Building another "ultimate in realism" route requires more than laying track over a Google Earth overlay: it requires track plans, signalling plans, employee timetables, cab ride videos.
There is some of this available on the internet, but many of these developer documents have to be acquired from the railway itself or its historical society, costing $$.

Some licenses also cost $$$$, and I cannot really imagine DTG has lots of cash to spare at the moment.

The Editor is still in the works, and apparently no new DLC for our Christmas stockings ....

What will next year bring to TSW?

[BNSFdude]

Building another "ultimate in realism" route requires more than laying track over a Google Earth overlay: it requires track plans, signalling plans, employee timetables, cab ride videos.
There is some of this available on the internet, but many of these developer documents have to be acquired from the railway itself or its historical society, costing $$.

Some people have access to all of that, with exception to cab ride footage. A shame they couldn't pay me enough to cough any of it up.

[Griphos]

As usual with such speculative diagnoses from people on fora, this blanket assessment about the long-term user base is wrong in at least one case. I’m a long time enthusiast who started with the first MSTS, and I’ve never created a single thing for this sim or any of the other many sims I play, some of which I have thousands of hours of time in.

Many of us just like operating in ways that model those activities in the world. They are operational sims after all. People who make these kinds of claims are simply projecting their own preferences on others absent any real knowledge of the player community. However well or badly DTG uses the information, unlike the forum “experts” here, they at least have accurate data on who buys what and how long and how often they use it. It is easy to pontificate and judge on an unofficial forum, of course.

The comparison between Trainz and TSW graphics is ludicrous (I have both). Trainz is certainly the sim for those who want to build model railroads, but it is an exceedingly user-unfriendly platform with a very limited set of quality content for those who just want to run trains, and a very odd community on top of that (and perhaps because of it).

I answered the survey. I’ll be interested to see what develops from it. I asked for more freight operations.

[buzz456]

We all have opinions and anecdotal evidence to back up our opinions. What they do with this will have to wait for time to pass. I'm just thankful that they have apparently decided to support the TSxxxx franchise while trying to make this thing attractive to a larger audience.

[GreatNortherner]

We all have opinions and anecdotal evidence to back up our opinions. What they do with this will have to wait for time to pass. I'm just thankful that they have apparently decided to support the TSxxxx franchise while trying to make this thing attractive to a larger audience.

Very well said, Buzz! I couldn't agree more.

[thegevo5k]

Something very interesting came up in the survey, and that was the routes you wanted to see in the future for TSW. One of the options is Kansas City - Topeka.

This is pure speculation, but could DTG have reacquired the BNSF license?

[NorthernWarrior]

Interesting questions. I answered as truthfully and positively as I could.

The route one is a thorny subject which is always going to throw up as many opinions as people answer the survey. The main thing is that the routes need to be longer. In truth I would like to see a variety of routes from around the world, though must admit my free form choice was for the West Highland Line in Scotland. Well it was either that or the old Ohrid narrow gauge in Yugoslavia but that is so obscure they'd probably only sell 8 copies - which of course is the rub. Whatever they come up with needs to be a crowd pleaser to do well commercially. Give us a decent editor, easy to use as Trainz Surveyor and we will do the rest.

[GreatNortherner]

...This is pure speculation, but could DTG have reacquired the BNSF license?

This is even more speculation, but I don't think DTG ever "lost" the BNSF license. What happened was that BNSF prohibited the sale of BNSF branded products outside of the USA -- which is why recent releases of BNSF content have usually come with a logo-less "rest of the world" version. That approach might extend to TSW, though that is yet more speculation.

[BNSF650]

Would be nice to see some BNSF or even UP.

[NorthernWarrior]

The one US route I would like to see, which has been not featured in any commercial release (AFAIK) since Trainmaster 4, is the DRGW "Front Range" out of Denver up through Moffat Tunnel and beyond to Granby or thereabouts.

[AlcoFan]

The one US route I would like to see, which has been not featured in any commercial release (AFAIK) since Trainmaster 4, is the DRGW "Front Range" out of Denver up through Moffat Tunnel and beyond to Granby or thereabouts.

Mountain pass madness needs to end eventually.

[NorthernWarrior]

The one US route I would like to see, which has been not featured in any commercial release (AFAIK) since Trainmaster 4, is the DRGW "Front Range" out of Denver up through Moffat Tunnel and beyond to Granby or thereabouts.

Mountain pass madness needs to end eventually.

:)

Or a New York Subway route, then..!

[Brickrail782]

Something very interesting came up in the survey, and that was the routes you wanted to see in the future for TSW. One of the options is Kansas City - Topeka.

This is pure speculation, but could DTG have reacquired the BNSF license?

Union Pacific also has tracks on the other side of the Kansas River that run out to Topeka. Maybe that's what they're thinking of doing.

[Juxen]

I don't know, but I bet that the Surfliner is the next called one. DTG loves the big coastal cities.

Although I would be hyped to see the Pacific Ocean in UE4. It's a gorgeous route.