Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul Developer Diary 2

[pschlik]

Read an interesting answer in the TSW Developer Diaries regarding support for steam locomotives - There is still a great deal of work ahead of us to bring steam engines to Train Sim World. This includes work on the particles system to generate smoke and steam effects. I’ll have more information when we get to this at some point in the future.

If the particle system to generate smoke and steam effects is not ready, how is diesel exhaust going to be supported? Sounds like they have a great deal of work ahead of them to deliver a minimally viable product.
chris

Well, if you pay attention to the videos, it is clear that the locomotives do make smoke, so I don't know what you are getting all fired up about. Besides, how is just tweaking the smoke suddenly making an entire game a "great deal of work" to make "viable." As far as I know smoke is typically not the most important thing to a game.

Advice for life: back up claims with more evidence, or don't make such wild assertions in the first place!

[trev123]

I see that the usual lot at Trainsim.com are rubbishing DTG again. Not unusual though.

[hminky]

I see that the usual lot at Trainsim.com are rubbishing DTG again. Not unusual though.

Posted this over there:

Ah, a new sim for the complainers to complain about, nice.

Harold

And immediately the same complainers complained about me complaining about the complainers.

Those guys trash everything, never understand what they are doing in train-sims.

Harold

[BNSFdude]

Read an interesting answer in the TSW Developer Diaries regarding support for steam locomotives - There is still a great deal of work ahead of us to bring steam engines to Train Sim World. This includes work on the particles system to generate smoke and steam effects. I’ll have more information when we get to this at some point in the future.

If the particle system to generate smoke and steam effects is not ready, how is diesel exhaust going to be supported? Sounds like they have a great deal of work ahead of them to deliver a minimally viable product.
chris

Well, if you pay attention to the videos, it is clear that the locomotives do make smoke, so I don't know what you are getting all fired up about. Besides, how is just tweaking the smoke suddenly making an entire game a "great deal of work" to make "viable." As far as I know smoke is typically not the most important thing to a game.

Advice for life: back up claims with more evidence, or don't make such wild assertions in the first place!

I think they aren't telling the whole story of their troubles.
Steam has a number of variants you'd have to make to plug into their simulations.
Caloric values of different fuel types, fuel delivery and control systems, water injection systems (exhaust, live, etc), expansion rates of different steams depending on if its super-heated, high/low pressure cylinder simulation for articulated, steam chest sizes and expansion, valve gear effects on timing, the power graphs of how TE is output that can cause surges per stroke. blah blah blah.

I'm sure they're working hard on doing the proper research in order to lay the foundations of having super accurate steam simulation so that when they, or 3rd parties wish to develop locomotives, all they have to do is plug in different numbers to achieve desired performance. It's a huge deal now, especially considering the level of quality in simulation brought to the genre by the likes of Mike Rennie, Steam Sounds Supreme, and other developers.

[OldProf]

Steam has a number of variants you'd have to make to plug into their simulations.
Caloric values of different fuel types, fuel delivery and control systems, water injection systems (exhaust, live, etc), expansion rates of different steams depending on if its super-heated, high/low pressure cylinder simulation for articulated, steam chest sizes and expansion, valve gear effects on timing, the power graphs of how TE is output that can cause surges per stroke. blah blah blah.

"Blah, blah, blah" indeed. In 8,500+ hours of RailSim-Train-Sim play since 2006, I can honestly say that I've never been bothered by any of the factors cited above and elsewhere in this thread. My focus is on writing and playing scenarios that go beyond simply holding my interest to challenging my problem solving skills. These goals leave me unexcited by wind in the trees, cab crawling, complex start-up procedures. I don't have anything against those who thrive on such matters; I'm just voicing another opinion.

[BNSFdude]

I'm in the opposite boat. If I wanted to be a footboard yardmaster I'd go work in a different terminal at work rather than play it out in a simulation.
I like to be challenged to operate despite adversities in scenarios. A huge factor in which is proper simulation.

[bpetit]

I'm in the opposite boat. If I wanted to be a footboard yardmaster I'd go work in a different terminal at work rather than play it out in a simulation.
I like to be challenged to operate despite adversities in scenarios. A huge factor in which is proper simulation.

If there's MP at a later date, then you will be challenged quite hard.

[BNSFdude]

I'm in the opposite boat. If I wanted to be a footboard yardmaster I'd go work in a different terminal at work rather than play it out in a simulation.
I like to be challenged to operate despite adversities in scenarios. A huge factor in which is proper simulation.

If there's MP at a later date, then you will be challenged quite hard.

Sitting at a red signal for 3 hours isn't challenging!

[Ericmopar]

Heeeem...
Hawwwww...

[longiron]

Good news about selecting CSX Heavy Haul as the first route - it should provide the community with a broad set of building assets to start with because DTG will have to populate Cumberland.

[pschlik]

Good news about selecting CSX Heavy Haul as the first route - it should provide the community with a broad set of building assets to start with because DTG will have to populate Cumberland.

And maybe it will convince the complainers here and especially at TrainSim that they can handle the physics of big long trains, it seems to be a clever choice for multiple reasons beyond that, too.

[buzz456]

Good news about selecting CSX Heavy Haul as the first route - it should provide the community with a broad set of building assets to start with because DTG will have to populate Cumberland.

And maybe it will convince the complainers here and especially at TrainSim that they can handle the physics of big long trains, it seems to be a clever choice for multiple reasons beyond that, too.

It's interesting. I have been running big long trains for a long time with no problems. I still maintain that people are trying to run huge complex things with computers incapable of handling them. And no I don't have a Cray computer.

[BNSFdude]

It's interesting. I have been running big long trains for a long time with no problems. I still maintain that people are trying to run huge complex things with computers incapable of handling them. And no I don't have a Cray computer.

Coal trains are broken. I shouldn't be able to glide up a mountain grade in Notch 3...

[Ericmopar]

It's interesting. I have been running big long trains for a long time with no problems. I still maintain that people are trying to run huge complex things with computers incapable of handling them. And no I don't have a Cray computer.

Coal trains are broken. I shouldn't be able to glide up a mountain grade in Notch 3...

You've got that right Anthony.
It's not just coal cars, it's any open top cars like low side gondolas and woodchip cars. They work okay unloaded, but as soon as they are loaded a 80 car train can "glide" up a 3% grade with just 2 or 3 SD40s. Those cars are also incredibly unstable on turns at low speeds.
I can't figure out why tankers and boxcars can work well but not open top type cars.
The settings in the simulation bins look right, but those cars have a built in issue of some sort. Maybe in the core game program.

[GSkid]

Sitting at a red signal for 3 hours isn't challenging!

It's challenging to your sanity. Imagine someone hosting a MP session as the dispatcher that doesn't like you and has you as the lowest priority train stuck on a siding all afternoon.

I do kinda hope they implement some type of optional hardcore mode you can select in the future so that operational faults can be introduced randomly such as broken knuckles, overheated bearings, air hoses detaching, major locomotive component failures, etc, etc. Especially for MP mode. I'd of course want such issues to be able to be resolved on an accelerated time basis so people are not sitting around for a long time for such issues to be fixed.

I highly doubt they would do so, but it would a nice addition once the sim's functional foundation attributes are in place and mature.