F3 is out

[buzz456]

TheR62Fan,
I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Are you trying to publicly shame him or is this just sour grapes because you didn't get the fix that you wanted? Calling someone out like this is not very nice. If you ever posted this on Farcebook I must have missed it. I am very interested in what you are trying to accomplish with this post?

I mean it's not that hard to implement something like thst if you have the source files. If anything charging people for an evidently incomplete product is not very nice. Of course, personal attacks against the individual are in bad taste. Cesar seems like a nice person although personally I feel his work is stuck in the past.

I repeat for the hundredth time, no one is forced to buy anything. If you don't think a product is worth the money then just don't buy it. If you want to discuss it with the author then feel free but I think it's in bad taste to put out a post where you decide to tell the whole world that you tried to get someone to in your mind "fix something" that you think should be on the model and they didn't do it.
Further if you think that saying " Of course, personal attacks against the individual are in bad taste. Cesar seems like a nice person although personally I feel his work is stuck in the past." is not a personal attack on someone then I guess we just don't speak the same language.
Personally I find some of the hyper realistic stuff on here to be way to much fiddling around to be enjoyable but I don't get on here and tell them they made the stuff way too complicated to be fun. Many of us have different taste when it comes to what we are looking for and commenting on features that are there or not there is fine but for the most part there is no reason to infer or characterize that the author in one way or another because of some omission anyone perceives.

[LukasP]

TheR62Fan,
I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Are you trying to publicly shame him or is this just sour grapes because you didn't get the fix that you wanted? Calling someone out like this is not very nice. If you ever posted this on Farcebook I must have missed it. I am very interested in what you are trying to accomplish with this post?

I mean it's not that hard to implement something like thst if you have the source files. If anything charging people for an evidently incomplete product is not very nice. Of course, personal attacks against the individual are in bad taste. Cesar seems like a nice person although personally I feel his work is stuck in the past.

I repeat for the hundredth time, no one is forced to buy anything. If you don't think a product is worth the money then just don't buy it. If you want to discuss it with the author then feel free but I think it's in bad taste to put out a post where you decide to tell the whole world that you tried to get someone to in your mind "fix something" that you think should be on the model and they didn't do it.
Further if you think that saying " Of course, personal attacks against the individual are in bad taste. Cesar seems like a nice person although personally I feel his work is stuck in the past." is not a personal attack on someone then I guess we just don't speak the same language.
Personally I find some of the hyper realistic stuff on here to be way to much fiddling around to be enjoyable but I don't get on here and tell them they made the stuff way too complicated to be fun. Many of us have different taste when it comes to what we are looking for and commenting on features that are there or not there is fine but for the most part there is no reason to infer or characterize that the author in one way or another because of some omission anyone perceives.

It's not a personal attack. It's constructive criticism.
Of course nobody is forcing anyone to buy X product for Y reason, however I am a huge fan of EMD locomotives from the era of the SD45-2 so naturally i was anticipating the pack. What i found was a less than ideal locomotive in this day and age. I found it to match the quality of the original SD45s, which might i add are under half the price (at least here in the UK). If it was the same price as them then fair enough, but i feel pricing it the same as something in the league of the GP20 or BNSF Locomotive Pack which coincidentally came out in 2013, almost a decade ago.
In comparision to his previous products like the GP30 or GTEL i honestly feel this is a step backwards in general, completely excluding the argument of when they came out. So no, I am not being forced to buy it. But if cesar would like my money he should hold up his end of the deal.
If you're able to enjoy it, good for you, but many of us aren't able to.

Ironically the F3 became significantly more bearable with the 567 sound mod thrown on, which is rather pitiful for a product i paid $20/£12 for.

[buzz456]

Whatever just keep running things down. It will win you friends and fans everywhere. If you don't get it it's no skin off my nose.

[GreatNortherner]

It's not a personal attack. It's constructive criticism. ... Ironically the F3 became significantly more bearable with the 567 sound mod thrown on, which is rather pitiful for a product i paid $20/£12 for.

It is very much not constructive what you are doing here. For one, you are using fairly harsh language ("pitiful", "ironic", "bearable") to try and emphasize your point. How do you think that will affect your chances of "being heard"? Besides that it is pulling down the overall level and quality of the discussion here in the forum, which doesn't help anybody.

But more to the point, you are doing what too many others are doing and mixing your personal opinion and tastes into a quality assessment, which in my opinion is leading nowhere. I get that you would prefer to have all locos fitted with a full suite of scripted features and gimmicks. But that is not what everybody wants (including myself) and is also not supported by the nunbers I have from my website and Steam. RW and its developers evidently cater to a wide array of different tastes and preferences, and what on earth could be wrong with that? It's like in some other countries represented in RW: there are "classic" and there are "expert" add-ons, and they live side by side. You just have to live with the fact that not all DLC will be to your liking, same as I have to live with it. That is absolutely no reason to go about bashing those that you don't like, by which you are implicitly also bashing the tastes and likes of simmers who happen to like the "stuck in the past" items.

And a couple remarks about some items that I keep hearing over and over:

Pricing: If you have any complaints about pricing, please take them up with DTG as they are running the store. In my opinion and experience, the pricing is quite predictable and fairly consistent based on content provided. And of course folks can always wait for one of the (inevitable) sale if they think the starting price is too much for them.

EMD567: To my ears, the "old" EMD567 sound set is very close to the real thing. And while I have to form my own opinion based on videos (such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eV-19IMng ) as I'm half a globe away from any still breathing 1st gen EMDs, some of my friends who have actually witnessed the real ones in live action back in the day have also said similar things.

Cheers,
Michael

[mindenjohn]

EMD567: To my ears, the "old" EMD567 sound set is very close to the real thing. And while I have to form my own opinion based on videos (such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eV-19IMng ) as I'm half a globe away from any still breathing 1st gen EMDs, some of my friends who have actually witnessed the real ones in live action back in the day have also said similar things.

Cheers,
Michael

Michael
I agree with all you said in the post. On the sounds - we are talking about an engine built 70 years ago, fitted into a variety of locomotives with differing bodyshells, differing exhausts all of which change the sound (rattles, echoes, reverberation etc) how can someone today say the sound is not realistic. Recording, for example a GP9, today cannot reproduce the sounds of a GP9 in 1957 for example when everything on the locomotive was tight and factory fresh. We are lucky to have some recordings from the day but we have far too many amateur experts who complain and complain. I am grateful that we get anything at all that looks something like and sounds near to the real thing from 70 years ago. I don't look or sound like I did 70 years ago for sure.The whole game is a compromise so we the community have to compromise or play something else. If and it is a big If the community wants total realism then it will have to pay for it but not everyone, as is pointed out above, wants an all singing and dancing locomotive that takes 10 + minutes to start up, I don't.

[LukasP]

It's not a personal attack. It's constructive criticism. ... Ironically the F3 became significantly more bearable with the 567 sound mod thrown on, which is rather pitiful for a product i paid $20/£12 for.

It is very much not constructive what you are doing here. For one, you are using fairly harsh language ("pitiful", "ironic", "bearable") to try and emphasize your point. How do you think that will affect your chances of "being heard"? Besides that it is pulling down the overall level and quality of the discussion here in the forum, which doesn't help anybody.

But more to the point, you are doing what too many others are doing and mixing your personal opinion and tastes into a quality assessment, which in my opinion is leading nowhere. I get that you would prefer to have all locos fitted with a full suite of scripted features and gimmicks. But that is not what everybody wants (including myself) and is also not supported by the nunbers I have from my website and Steam. RW and its developers evidently cater to a wide array of different tastes and preferences, and what on earth could be wrong with that? It's like in some other countries represented in RW: there are "classic" and there are "expert" add-ons, and they live side by side. You just have to live with the fact that not all DLC will be to your liking, same as I have to live with it. That is absolutely no reason to go about bashing those that you don't like, by which you are implicitly also bashing the tastes and likes of simmers who happen to like the "stuck in the past" items.

And a couple remarks about some items that I keep hearing over and over:

Pricing: If you have any complaints about pricing, please take them up with DTG as they are running the store. In my opinion and experience, the pricing is quite predictable and fairly consistent based on content provided. And of course folks can always wait for one of the (inevitable) sale if they think the starting price is too much for them.

EMD567: To my ears, the "old" EMD567 sound set is very close to the real thing. And while I have to form my own opinion based on videos (such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eV-19IMng ) as I'm half a globe away from any still breathing 1st gen EMDs, some of my friends who have actually witnessed the real ones in live action back in the day have also said similar things.

Cheers,
Michael

Generally speaking I wouldn't have used words of that manor had I not paid full price for this thing. People often forget that a transaction should be mutually beneficial to both parties and not "good enough" for one side.
I'm not asking for a full set of gimmicks and features, in fact the only reason i brought up the lack of features was due to the description on the store page stating "highly realistic features". That was poorly worded Gon my part and I do apologise.
With regards to the pricing, I've spoken about it to DTG many times, to no avail. Been there, done that. While sales are more frequent than in years prior, half the time you'll find third party stuff not included, so you'll end up waiting months for the price reduction, in addition to the fact that products usually go at least 3-4 months before any form of price reduction.
With regards to the old 567 sounds, I will say they were more than adequate for the time they came out (2011). Once revved up they do sound quite nice but my main complaint are at lower RPMs and that air spitter sound. They sound more hollow (at least from my perspective) on the real thing.
If i appear to be bashing and individuals then i apologise. The words I speak are strictly directed towards the product itself, not the individuals/organisations behind it's development.

[buzz456]

OK enough hair spitting and deciding how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Let's get back to product discussion and decide that we agree to disagree about how opinions are expressed. I will repeat one last time no one is forced to buy anything so enough about pricing. You vote with your wallet not your mouth if you are a adult.

[ElphabaWS]

Totally agree with each and every one of Michael's above comments, and "LP," give it a break, you've belabored your harshly stated points repeatedly here and elsewhere.

[LukasP]

Totally agree with each and every one of Michael's above comments, and "LP," give it a break, you've belabored your harshly stated points repeatedly here and elsewhere.

alright sorry for having an opinion :)

[mindenjohn]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but no one is entitled to ram it down other folks. Express an opinion but not repeatedly, it undermines the effect as folks get tired of it and ignore the whole lot. That includes developers, they are human, not faceless corporations.

[buzz456]

Definition of polite

1a : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of advanced culture
b : marked by refined cultural interests and pursuits especially in arts
2a : showing or characterized by correct social usage
b : marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy
c : marked by a lack of roughness or crudities

[LukasP]

Definition of polite

1a : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of advanced culture
b : marked by refined cultural interests and pursuits especially in arts
2a : showing or characterized by correct social usage
b : marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy
c : marked by a lack of roughness or crudities

"marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy"
i'm guessing you didn't take that into account when you threatened me on the dovetail forums?

[buzz456]

Just stop please.

[Chacal]

And with that, I believe everyone will agree this thread has ran its course.
That's all, folks.