The one thing RW needs is TRUE career mode

[SoloTwo]

Well this is my first post, been wondering around here for a little while now and finally decided to make a post about something that has been bugging me for awhile.

I recently got back in to railroad siming after a year or so away and really started enjoying myself again. I started doing a good chunk of scenarios and that's all good and fun for a certain amount of time. Then last night I bought the NEC expansion and did the Clocker scenario. It was extremely enjoyable, and I think impossible to actually complete, but fun non the less. But am I going to want to play that same scenario over and over again knowing exactly what is going to happen before I get to Newark? Not really. In reality I just want to make runs back and fourth from New York to Phily running to a real time table not with some preset train that is going to slow me down for the first part of the trip. I want to be surprised if something happens or just be happy that its a normal day and everything is fine.

What I'm getting at is I just wish I could enter a career mode as if I worked for Amtrak. I want to start out the day knowing my routes when I'm supposed to do it and just start working. Then I want to be judged constantly on my work performance and things that would happen throughout the day would be random not knowing whats going to happen every time.

This is really my only complaint with this game, I know we have a "career" mode but that isn't really much more than a gimmick, it's just scenarios where we are graded. I would just enjoy so much working on a route not knowing what my next job would be, just imagine the possibilities. I think it would add so much depth into the game. Right now I'm just always worried about running out of scenarios to play. After buying NEC and realizing that I only had 4 scenario's to play and only two going the entire route and what looks like to be both of them having some sort of hiccup that will happen all the time, that really limits the fun for me. I'm always looking to download new scenarios but most of the ones you find always seem to require some sort of addon's to play. Heck I was looking on sim-market and one scenario add on required it seemed like 5 different addon's for every scenario. The re playability of this game would be infinite if there was a true career mode. I've tried screwing around in free roam mode but just don't find it interesting at all.


Cliff notes: A true career mode where you are actually employed by a company where we can just play endlessly not 45 minutes and finishing a scenario just to do the exact same thing over again.

[Marleyman]

Interesting that you should mention this as I was just about to post an update and a request for United International Railways; http://www.railworks.marleyman.co.uk/platform1/ The plan over there is to create a career within the Virtual Railroad Company and I am now looking for Content Providers, Employees (virtual ones that is), Re-skinners, C++ coders, PHP Coders, and just about anyone with good knowledge of Railroads in the USA.

The reason being the Virtual Company needs to be International, it needs to include German RR, UK RR and USA RR so I will be needing a CEO for each of those areas to run those divisions and keep the truly international aspect alive. The company is literally a start-up but don't let that put you off, come on over and bring your ideas. Check out the Multi-Player Threads already started and Get Involved with the new United International Railways Forum where all our content, rules, reskins and such like will be hosted.

Without interested and active players, the company will fold. With you, we can produce urgent freight runs that require 100,000's of gallons of Fuel or Oil or 100,000's of tons of Perishable freight to be transported across the world. With Plans for a scoring and Ranking system in place and a data base to log your results and to keep your Drivers Log Book up to date we plan on a career spanning 1000 or 2500 actual hours, that means 800 to 2400 scenarios! A massive undertaking and an exciting project!

That my Railfan Friends is United International Railways

[SoloTwo]

Yeah don't take this the wrong way but that's not really what I'm looking for.

I just want to be able to sit down and continue a career driving for Amtrak on the NEC have certain timetables every day and what not. Having to play the same scenarios over and over again kinda ruins the re playability for me.

If there was such thing as a proper career mode I would never put this game down. I've only started playing this game again for about a week and I'm running out of scenarios. And having to pay 200 dollars for a couple addon's and about 20 scenarios just kinda puts me off.

Btw I have no issue with all the dlc and the cost of it I just wish there was something that would make me want to PLAY the dlc more whether it be a proper career mode, (which of course I don't expect for a long time if its ever added) or more scenarios. I want 20 or more scenarios with a new route not 4 for 32 bucks. Trust me, if all the dlc included more scenarios at least I'd be purchasing ALOT more but its just when you see a price tag of 30 bucks and only enough scenarios to keep you busy for a couple hours it kinda makes you think of spending your money else where.

[OldProf]

Have you looked at the scenarios that can be downloaded free of cost? There are quite a few of them on this website, more at TrainSim.com, and other sites as well. None of these are RW-style career scenarios, because so far those can only be created by RailSim. Some, but certainly not all, require additional downloads, mostly rolling stock, both freeware and payware. Hope you find something you like.

Tom Pallen

[Dan]

The one thing that all rail sims lack that the real world has is the element of chaos and random events taking place.

For example if you take the same route day in day out different things will happen - signal failures, track work, train failures, other delays. No sim ever gives you that random element because activities/scenarios are always scripted, and anything 'random' has to be built into it. Now, if the sim were to enable a 'random' element to be introduced truly randomly then it would certainly make things more interesting for 'repeat' runnings of scenarios.

[Chock]

I completely agree with the OP on this. I'm personally not that into creating scenarios. I don't mind route building and modeling, but from being involved with Flight Sims and their content for years, I'm aware that there are many simulation users out there who don't do any of that kind of content creation stuff and just want to 'plug and play' so to speak.

Thus I think that developers of routes and locos/rolling stock need to realise that there are many users out there who won't touch any of the building tools and just want a train sim they can drive a lot. For users such as that, the scenarios are no mere bonus, they are an integral part of what gives the product value, and when a product only has one or two them, it simply doesn't smack of great value. The fact that externally getting stuff and adding it to a Steam product is often not as straightforward as it could be puts many users off adding stuff that is not on Steam, so although there are other scenarios out there, that is a perception developers of the payware DLC also need to be aware of, since it effectively gets in the way of making the product seem attractive to a wider audience by relying on that 'user created' concept too heavily, and when you have a niche sim, that's not a good thing. It would be far better if there seemed to be more built-in playability in a train sim.

Take another niche sim market in comparison - flight sims - in particular the long-running and now reborn MS Flight Simulator (aka MS Flight as it is now). Payware for that sim is different in one very important regard, in that you can fly your shiny FSX payware PMDG 737 or whatever anywhere in the world that you like, simply by choosing a start location and taking off and ATC will work with you literally 'on the fly', i.e. there is no dependence on scripting, and thus no fiddling about necessary to get replay value since it is all via the built in program GUI and thus not scary for users. So users never run out of things to do with it and don't feel they have to be a low-level programmer to get the best (or even simply more) out of their simulator. This is not a perception one has with train sims. That fundamental difference makes the price tag for payware aeroplanes that much more palatable than it is for train sims, where you are literally on rails as far as what you can do is concerned without having to go under the hood of the sim and hack it about to get more playability, which is a big turn off for very many potential users. So there needs to be more you can do by default, and some kind of GUI-driven linked career mode would be one way to approach that kind of expanded playability. If the forthcoming RW update had that as opposed to more realistic rain dripping down the windows, it would be a much bigger leap forward.

Al

[RSPaul]

Please keep discussing this (if you want of course), I am very interested in the topic.

We can now do random events, so looking into that. I think you will find the career journey on the new route interesting.

Anyway I am watching the thread for feedback, in case you want to give some more.
But for obvious reason probably wont post again.
Thanks all
Paul

[styckx]

Seeing Paul post is like seeing Jesus in my toast. :)

One thing I always thought would add an immense level of reality is the ability to call for a helper, tow, or just be able to bring another engine (you drive) that isn't just conveniently sitting in the next track over.

Hear me me out. I will now go into detailed fictional scenario building.

When building a scenario you will have the ability to classify engines as alternates. For examples sake, lets take the NEC. I am placing a GP38 in the yard at Philly and ticking a box for it to designated as an alternate. I will also do the same for a SW1500 at Hudson yard.

I then set up regional train headed by an AEM-7. In the scenario properties for this consist I will tick a box to enable random events. In this case a break down. Also in the properties I will set the percentage of a break down actually occurring. Set the normal destinations etc. Last but not least I will tick a box that says "tow" so the game knows there is an alternative to ending the scenario.

Now I play. lalallala I'm driving to New York. lalalakala everything is... Ut oh. Failure. I'm dead in the water. Dialog pops up. "You have experienced a failure, exit or call alternate?"

I choose call alternate. A dialog pops up letting me choose the GP38 or SW1500. I choose the GP38 and instantly placed in the cab. Game picks up a path the the broken consist, what instructions were left on that train and advises me to drive to, tow, and complete the assignments of the broken train. So I drive to it now, couple up and proceed on my way continuing where left off before the break down with times adjusted accordingly.

Dreamland. Yes. But it is one of many missing dimensions the current linear career system is missing. Something to break up the monotony.

[PapaXpress]

Just to add to way styckx was saying, we were talking about something like this here:
viewtopic.php?p=25777

About half way down we start talking about helpers.

[RSPaul]

To stykx, we need to go down the pub for a beer. You wont feel like that again afterwards;-)

[Leaf85]

One thing I'd like to see added to the scenario editor is the ability to add triggers to the route which, when the player driver rolled over the trigger point, an event might occur or an appropriate consist might be spawned (from a table similar to a 'loot table' in RPGs) at a particular (possibly varied) point along the route which would have the effect of adding a minor random element to a repeatable scenario. Currently after I've run the same scenario a few times it begins to have a bit of sameness...ah yes I will always see the coal consist near Point A, the High Speed Express at Point B etc. If there was a possibility of adding triggers (with a % to spawn an event or consist) I think that many scenarios would have greater replayability and therefore a longer life.

Finally, would it be possible for a java based scenario generator similar to Patrick Wilsons brilliant application designed for the WWI flight sim, Rise of Flight, be possible? Link here http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2893248/ROF_Campaign_Released.html#Post2893248

[Chock]

It surely can't be that hard to do something like implement Thunderbird locos for a breakdown, after all, you've been able to switch to other engines in all versions of Trainz for years, which means you can indeed do that sort of 'rescue locomotive' thing on the fly. It would certainly be comically ironic if Railwork's functionality was too 'on rails' to make that possible when what is effectively its commercial rival can do so easily.

Al

[arizonachris]

To stykx, we need to go down the pub for a beer. You wont feel like that again afterwards;-)

I think we are in for a few more surprises on the 23rd.

Wish you would stop by more often on the Steam/ Railworks Forum, Paul. I understand how busy you are, tho.

[Paragon]

Knowing next to nothing about scripting in RW, I am prepared to state that any story engine with random events needs only two functions from the script engine:

1. A random number generator;
2. The ability to alter or add scenario instructions as the scenario unfolds, including placing and modifying objects on the map.

If the script engine has these two properties, robust scenarios are possible today. I cannot wait until I know enough to write one!

[Dan]

Years ago (1980s) on my old Commodore 64 I had a text based driving game. The one thing is had which no other game since has had. Namely that engines were assigned a 'random' state at the start of the journey - ex-works, good, run-down and poor. Depending on the condition of the loco your acceleration, braking etc would vary. Get an engine in a poor condition and you would be much more likely to get a failure and to then have to limp to the next station and have to wait for the problem to be fixed or worse, crawl to the end of the game with an ailing loco hoping to not arrive an hour and half late. You could be running along and suddenly get held up at signals for 15 minutes because 'there is a problem with the train ahead/crossing' etc. You would have to watch the signals because even if you'd never been held at such and such in the past you could suddenly have to hold for no reason.

I've fired steam engines and I know that performance depends so much on quality of fuel, state of the boiler (try firing with leaky tubes and you'll have some idea). Trying to drive say the Somerset and Dorset on a loco with bad coal and a leaky boiler is a much harder task than trying to drive an ex-works loco with good coal.

The other thing which very rarely features but which is a massive feature of the real world is fuel economy. We would get a real bollocking from the Loco Superintendent for wasting oil, coal, water etc. It was a badge of honour to be the most fuel efficient crew.