Pole Line Poll

[tntrainer]

Hello Friends,
I am still working on my TS route based on the Cowan, Tennessee area of the L&N Chattanooga Subdivision. I've been sidetracked this fall and winter due to some illness and Covid. I'm headed back onto the mainline now and trying to get back into detailing the route. Looking at the great routes that have been created recently, such as the Mountain Subdivision with its high attention to detail, one of my favorite things is the pole line. All of us with a little grey in the head remember the pole lines along the routes used for communications and signal code. I feel they add to the realism of the routes in TS. I'm a self taught novice at this simulator with lots of help browsing RWA and numerous other sites. I want to produce a route people will enjoy when its hopefully done and I share it with the community.

In the route that I am creating, I have been using a line pole with two cross arms for multiple wires but with no wires. I find that I can get the poles the way they really are...some crooked, some higher and lower, and often leaving the right of way to ascend a hill or avoid a rock cut or outcropping. I have been experimenting with the pole line lofts in the game and trying to get them to look right up and down the hills. Since installing a loft works the same as track with the linear objects tool, it can be difficult to get the pole line loft with wires to look correct. You have to use the gradient tool to ascend or descend a hill. As my example pictures show, my route has numerous mountains and hills the line passes through or over. There are deep rock cuts representing the way the builders sliced their way across Cumberland Mountain.

Using the linear objects tool, it takes a lot of adjusting the grades and experimentation to get the pole line to look correct. Often there are points along the line that are missing a pole on each end until a manual adjustment is made to raise or lower the loft. Then the poles magically appear but the wires are not continuous because the whole thing is linear between the points where you stop the loft. You have to manually adjust each point using the gradient arrows. You occasionally get an extra pole where there would not be one. I'm open to anyone who is an experienced pole line artist to offer any suggestions. Looking over the Mountain Sub, I see that they ran most of their pole lines in a linear manner where there were no steep ascents away from the relatively flat roadbed. You can do that using the snap to terrain feature in the tool. Not a criticism of doing it that way, just an observation. I love that route.

The greatest detraction of the pole line installed by the linear objects tool is..... its too perfect. No leaning poles. Just like a picket fence.

This brings me to my poll. I was wondering what everyone's opinion on pole lines in the simulator is. Are the wires important to you? Look at my pictures and tell me if you can live without the detail of the wires. The next time you roll along a route observe how it is detailed with a pole line. The time required to install the pole line with the program's tools results in some major tedium adjusting everything just so! Meanwhile, here are several example images of the pole line on my route. Does it matter to you there are no wires. Does it really detract from the realism. First pic is one showing my experimenting with wires and extra pole that magically appeared.

[tntrainer]

More Pics

[tntrainer]

Last pics

[HighBypass]

In the majority of those pics, any wires are disguised by the trees. IMHO, I don't see much value in adding the wires. Now if the track was going through a wide open expanse or some such area where the poles are highly visible against the prairie then perhaps adding wires would be better.

It would be a different matter if we were discussing overhead 25 kV catenary - those overhead lines would be necessary. Just my

[tntrainer]

Thank you for your .02¢ HighBypass

That is a good way of looking at it concerning the scenery. I will experiment more with the wide open spaces using the wire loft. I still have issue with the straight as a "picket Fence" appearance of the pole line. Most pole lines took a beating from falling trees, shifting ground, impacts from roadway equipment, etc. The poles would get out of line which is the effect I am looking for. If I were talented enough to use 3D software, I would take a stab at creating a line. I can see the reason it is the way that it is done due to the wire loft being a bit unforgiving in the way it renders. Since I have posted this, I have continued experimenting and am getting more happy with the results. When and If I ever get it mastered I may due a tutorial video on tricks I have learned.

I am in awe of some of the creations that have been coming out from folks here on RWA and even commercially. There have been great strides made (and a massive amount of time involved) by some of the custom route creators. I applaud their efforts to be more real world and show what an older platform program is capable of some ten plus years later.

I welcome any suggestions.

[kris120]

You should note that from the driver's perspective, you are looking at the wires from below. They are then much more noticeable than from the perspective as a builder.

[tntrainer]

Thank you for the comment Kris120. I continue to experiment with becoming proficient with pole line lofts as I create my route. My main objection continues to be the "too perfect" nature of the available assets. I realize for many that the whole object of the simulator is the running of the train. Since I have developed an interest in route creation I guess I'm obsessing too much on the world we operate through.

[kris120]

I'm also struggling with the poles in my route right now. The main problem is the flickering.
Maybe it helps to create/find a texture patch for the wires. Maybe brighter wires are more inconspicuous.

[RudiJaeger]

Screenshot_Inland Empire_46.40702--122.96289_09-47-03.jpg

Screenshot_Inland Empire_46.41902--122.96323_09-24-05.jpg

I was impressed with the poles in Wayne Campbell's CVP route; the individual poles can be placed and tilted prior to attaching the wires. While building my own route (in pics) I was able to tilt each pole ever so slightly and was pleased with the results after the wires were attached. In the SD45/U-boat shot, you can see a bit of tilt in that second pole to the right if you look closely. In the passenger shot, you can see some tilt in the far right pole and in the reflections in the pond. They also feature green insulators, which was prototypical for the area and time I was modelling; so not sure if the green insulators were typical in your neck of the woods.

Your route-building efforts look great, so I hope this helps; I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work

[tntrainer]

Thanks for your reply RudiJaeger. I assume you are manually placing each pole and then using a wire asset and lining everything up just so, rather than using a pole line loft with the linear objects tool?

I considered doing that but I was afraid of how time consuming it might become. As with anything in the simulator, practice improves the speed with which we accomplish things. I'll give that a try too.

[RudiJaeger]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were looking for the pre-assembled lofts. Yes, I was using the individual poles and attaching the wires after placement. It does take a little more time to position each pole, especially around curves and such, both tilting and spinning to match the radius; but what helped to speed things up a bit, was placing a measuring guide along the tracks for a couple of miles, then going back and planting a pole roughly at each increment. Of course once the poles were placed, I had to go back and remove each measuring stick. For measurements, there are the purpose-built tools that come with some routes; but in their absence, one could place two 25-30 meter bridges end to end, then lay a linear object (like a traffic barrier or such) next to them and stretch the object to the desired length using the un-locked resize-tool in the world editor; then copy-paste it aside for future route-building tasks. Sorry to get so detailed, as you probably already know this stuff; but someone new to route-building may be reading.

I checked-out the pre-assembled pole lofts in the B&O Mountain, and the Shasta routes, and they look very tempting; but I have not put them to a practical application yet. You might check those out. It's always a tough decision to add another route for assets, due to the resources-overhead; but those routes also have some very nice objects across the board, that might make it worthwhile. Anyway, I hope you can eventually find something that suits your route; it's a beauty!

[tntrainer]

Thanks again RudiJaeger . You have given me some things to ponder. I'm currently out of town on business and when I return I want to ask a few questions on your suggestions.

Thanks