32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

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32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:43 pm

Hey all!

I was trying to make out a number off of an older piece of rolling stock I was modifying today to see if it had its empty weight printed on the side. Textures like this on older stock are largely illegible unless you ramp up the graphic settings, position your camera just right, zoom in a little, and squint. I usually play the 64-bit edition as it's supposed to allow TS to use your computer's full capability to run the game and it is supposed to be more stable than the older 32-bit edition. While 64-bit edition was not meant to be a performance upgrade, some users could expect a slight performance increase depending on their hardware. So for the last year I've been using 64-bit edition, however if you make bigger adjustments to the graphics the game has to restart and when it does it defaults to 32-bit edition. So I ramped up the graphics and restarted the game in 32-bit edition. At this point I usually shut it off again to put it back in 64-bit, but since I just needed a peek at some stock I didn't bother starting it in 64-bit and went straight into my TestRoute where I do tests for my mods (just a 30-some-odd-mile-long piece of straight track in an open field). Upon jumping into a session to check the stock I noticed immediately that even though I was on max graphic settings I was getting a much higher fps in my 32-bit edition than I have ever gotten in the last year or so of playing in 64-bit playing with low-medium graphic settings. So I booted up a QD on the Montana Hi-Line with the longest train I could find. Running on max graphics in 32-bit the session ran smooth as silk compared to any previous session in 64-bit on medium graphic settings. So I checked out a couple of other routes to see if I'd get similar results. So far there has only been one route that crashes at max settings in 32-bit on my current setup: Western Lines of Scotland. Solved that real quick by dropping the graphic settings one notch from "Highest" to "High" and ensuring object density was at max and the route loaded again running smooth as silk hardly dropping a frame if any. Tried the same thing in 64-bit and I was lucky to make 15fps with max settings.
I'm impressed but at the same time confused. I thought the difference between the 2 editions was supposed to be only slightly different with 64-bit being more stable, but I'm seeing so far on my end that 32-bit is completely outclassing the 64-bit edition which doesn't make sense to me because I have a 64-bit system and the 32-bit edition can only use a limited amount of your computer's specs to run TS while 64-bit was made to use all of your computer's specs to run the game, thus making it more stable and slightly better. What gives? !*don-know!* I've been playing 32-bit edition on high-to-highest settings all day on different routes from old to modern and early to more recent locomotives and have been amazed with how much better it's performing than 64-bit and loving every minute of it.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby buzz456 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:02 pm

Is your computer 64 bit?
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:15 pm

Yep.
If what you've done is stupid but it works, then it really isn't that stupid at all.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby buzz456 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:40 am

I certainly don't know what to tell you. I run 64 bit all of the time and it runs just fine. I have all the sliders all the way over except for the Ambient occlusion which I have set to off per recommendation from Smokebox and I am running with a Samsung SSD, i5 gpu and GTX1060 with 16 megs of RAM. I always had trouble with some third party stuff with the 32bit but none with 64bit. Other than some stuttering when going from one tile to another in heavily detail areas it's always good. I would suspect a hardware memory issue of some kind but no real clue how to find it.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby DefectDetector » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:36 pm

I hope this isn't a necro post, but I'm a software engineer, and I might be able to shed some light on what's going on with performance differences between 32-bit vs 64-bit that the OP is seeing.

Caveat, I'm not a DTG employee, so this is informed speculation from my experience working on "close to the hardware" software.

The major reason for using or going to 64-bits is to allow the software to address more memory. (Theoretically, up to 16 EB, but there are some practical issues that prevent current hardware and OSes from actually supporting that much. Microsoft also uses max supported physical memory as a product differentiator for their Windows 10 SKUs, so the practical limit is 128 GB on Home, 2 TB on Pro, and 6 TB on Pro for Workstations.)

LargeAddressAware 32-bit applications on 64-bit Windows can only address up to 4 GB of that total, while traditional 32-bit Windows applications are limited to 2 GB. The 32-bit Railworks.exe is LargeAddressAware, so it can address up to 4 GB.

This limit can particularly matter because typical software isn't written to handle the case where the OS can not provide any more memory on demand, which in turn usually results in a crash. For software that support loading user-generated content, this can happen more frequently as users try to load more mods or add-ons. Making an application 64-bit is a quick fix for this problem.

But there is a trade-off for going to 64-bit, and that is more memory is now required for the internal bookkeeping required to use that larger address space. (In programming terms, a pointer is the name of the data type that holds a memory address. That data type has a size, which is typically the exact number of bits required for addressing, so for 32-bit software, it's going to be a 32-bit pointer. For 64-bit software, it's going to be a 64-bit pointer. The space required for holding an instance of that data type doubles.)

This increase in memory usage can break low-level code optimizations that had been done to get the best performance out of the 32-bit software. (Memory cache optimizations are usually broken by this and can have major performance impacts.) Reimplementing similar optimizations for the 64-bit version can be very time intensive work, and can increase the maintenance burden if you also have to keep the 32-bit version.

Newer and faster hardware can mask the impact of unoptimized or partially optimized code, so it's not surprising that others don't have as big of a difference between the two as the OP.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby kris120 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:51 pm

Just from my experience :
I get as soon a dump as the linit of 3.42-3.44 GB is reached in the 32bit version.
Others showed slightly different limits but generally similar ones.
As soon as you want to use more than a couple of wagons and locos you are forced to use the 64bit version.
In quickdrive, which may load everything the program finds in your installation, this is a must.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby DefectDetector » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:16 am

Yeah, in real-world usage, it's not going to be able to use the full 4 GB address space.

The program's address space is partitions into several regions, each with a different purpose, and that layout can leave gaps that aren't usable by the memory allocator. Also, the region that the memory allocator can allocate from can get fragmented if there are a lot of allocations/unallocations. If the allocator can't find a gap large enough for the requested allocation to fit into, it can also fail in this case even if the total free memory available is larger than the requested allocation. Modern Windows uses an allocator that makes this less likely, but it still can happen.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby Tomtom » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:10 pm

Good stuff DefectDetector.

Just a question - if I had bought a win10 Pro instead of a win10 home (using same mem in both boxes) would I have a better performing PC? I thought Pro was simply added software features.
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Re: 32-bit vs 64-bit surprise and a bit confused

Unread postby kris120 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:08 am

Regarding games including the TS : There is no difference whether you are using the Home or Pro version of w10.
The only thing that counts is 32 vs 64 bit here.
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