Dodgy physics

[Csxgp38-2]

Yes it is not easy and we have done that in our sessions already when we had a conductor under rule 99 walk back and protect the end of his train. We did this because that is what would have been done in the actual real world situation. As the dispatcher on duty in that session, it was my duty to make sure the train was protected and the following traffic notified of the danger ahead. Now was the train really in danger of being hit from behind? No...but it adds the element of realism that we look for in operating sessions. The road we were on and the time era we were running in dictated that the train be protected so we did. Right down to the "placement of torpedoes and lighting of fusees" at the proper distance.

This probably would not be done for one person running a scenario on their own but we have 20+ crews and trains to protect so we do what we have to get it done right by the book.

Nick

?? But you can't leave the cab on TS2012, and there isn't Mp... Or is there? Is this on MSTS or Trainz?

[Kali]

Well, I'm still messing with rolling-stock brakeforce atm. Summary of the modified SD40 so far though

* Initial app is back to the default one; 6-7lbs in the ]i]pipe[/i], that comes out as 2.5x in the cylinders. If that's too much then I am suspecting the stock.
* A full application is a lot less instant than it was, but it could probably do with being longer. I am investigating varying it depending on the train length but that takes wagon scripting too.
* A full release takes 45s, see above too. There's some bizarre quirk that means 0 pressure - min service pressure (which is max application ) is instant, which has to be a core bug. It might just be a bug with the Suppression notch, so I may just take that out.
* Dynamic brakes work on all units which can send consist messages to each other - that means all the head units and if the cars are scripted to pass messages, any other units. They may be too strong now.
* There's no way of doing the same for the independent brake.

Still working on:

* Finding a decent setting for cars brakeforce. Unfortunately it doesn't correct for being loaded, so I'm just assuming they're always loaded. It's a tedious task. If you want to try something yourself, we are assuming a loaded coal train of 80 cars on a 2% grade doing 30mph, would take something over a mile to stop. I assumed a mile and a half which conveniently works out at 4 minutes to stop.

You can leave the cab with the 8 key far enough.

[kevhead]

Hey guys and gals. This is great stuff but please don't forget some of us just want to run the trains and look at the pretty scenery. If they put on an easy and should I say pro version or realistic version yes but, if they make it so hard that most people that don't really know about physics or brake applications they might lose interest and well you know the rest. Thanks and yes it would be cool if you could have broken knuckles and have to walk half of a 5,280 ft. train to fix it.

[Kali]

Oh don't worry about that, nothing is going to make trains actually harder to handle ( I'm pretty sure there's nothing I could do to make that happen other than building a RW-quality 3d engine for OpenRails ) - you may just have to think ahead a little more. You already have to think ahead to stop in the right place anyway, messing with brakes just means you think a bit further ahead - and while you say "we just want to run trains", wouldn't it be good if it felt like a train and not a car? :)

Dynamic brakes working properly is also a fix you'd appreciate, I think.

[TrainMaster1]

We run two person crews plus we also have yard utility and local crews that can see everything the engineer sees in real time. So the engineer does what they are supposed to do ...run the train under the direction of their conductor. We are 100% focused on operations and doing it right. We have been very successful in dozens of sessions on MSTS and In November we will begin sessions for RW.

If you want to hear a session, you can still drop in for the 10/29 session on CSX Kingsport this weekend any time from 1 pm to 11 pm eastern time. If you want to run in the RW sessions coming up, you must attend the Intro Event classes on 11/3 and 11/6 at 8pm eastern. The RW mini sessions are scheduled now for 11/28 and 11/30 at 7 pm eastern. You run in both of these operating sessions in order to earn your way on to the Extra Board. First RW full session is 12/3. This is completely dependent upon how many RW owners show up to support the operating sessions. We need at least 12 crews to make it interesting and generally run 18+ train in a typical session.

So if you want to learn US prototype operations and be part of our group just let me know and I will give you the info you to either listen or to hold a place for you in the upcoming Intro Events on 11/3 and 11/6. I hope that some of you from this thread who have expressed an interest in learning, now take a moment to consider joining in the RW prototype sessions.

Thanks,

Nick

[Dan]

?? But you can't leave the cab on TS2012, and there isn't Mp... Or is there? Is this on MSTS or Trainz?

I think you could.

Switch to world view (the little globe) and then 'walk back' by zooming out, to certain points along the track.

I have to admit that I find the current braking system on all the locos very counter-intuitive.

The problem is that for a lot of acts at the moment - especially the timed ones (thinking about Paddington -Oxford) you have to drive in a completely unrealistic way in order to make the timetable. I am pretty sure that you may have to rework some acts in order to enable you to complete them successfully with reworked physics etc. (Which goes back to my point about it being the whole thing rather than just the physics).

[TrainMaster1]

Kevhead you hit it on the nail....we knew when we went with 100% realistic operations that the majority of sim owners of all brands would never be interested in what we are doing. Of those that are, only a minority of them will have the skills and determination to master the art of running a train properly.

All of this is okay though...sometimes it's fun just to watch the trees roll by (nothing wrong with that). Sometimes it's okay to try something new and come in and learn how to run better and improve your enjoyment of the game. And yes sometimes you just want to do it like the 1:1 scale people do.

So we created a method that works for any sim anywhere on the planet. The people who want to come and to learn are always welcome. If you want to expand you enjoyment of the sim, then by all means stop in to listen to our session on 10/29 and see if this is something you might want to do. We will be running on CSX set in May 2011. Every session features exact symbols and Train consists of what ran on the line for the day we are recreating. So with us you are on the railroad with the correct signal and track chart, right engines and consist for the train of your choice. Send me a PM and I will give the information to listen in tomorrow. We are live from 1 pm to 11 pm eastern time.

Thanks,

Nick

[Dan]

There are plenty of routes for people who like to look at scenery and aren't concerned with prototypical operation. I don't think it is ever a case of either or.

[MikeK]

I finally got around to trying all the suggestions in this thread: verifying blueprints, clearing the cache, and finally, deleting the entire game and re-downloading it. I am still seeing all the same issues that I originally posted about. Here are screens from the scenario "[DASH 9] Free roam: Dash 9s at Victorville". They clearly show a row of stack cars that fly off the track for absolutely no reason when my train (on the right side of the screen) derails.

I am sure that the broken calculations that allow this to happen also explain a lot of the other weird things I am seeing. I hope someone at railsimulator.com tries this simple 5 minute test and looks into the problem.

2011-10-29_00001.jpg

2011-10-29_00002.jpg

[Kali]

I notice there's been a similar issue reported on HSC in another thread here. I'm at a loss to explain those, I'm not even going to try - it's things like that that make me want to give up fiddling around under the hood, it's like it's full of spiders in there.

[arizonachris]

I had a strange "consist tilt" derailment on a third party B-SB scenario last week. Ran it again, derailed before I even moved. Ran it again and it worked fine. Only thing I did in between was clear blueprint cache.

[GaryG]

This could have something to do with the apparently random occurrence of cars leaning when they are placed on the rails. I've seen this happen a few times with loaded open top coal cars (North American).

GaryG

[Leaf85]

I've also seen that with the coal cars on the Barstow route, and also the autocarriers. Had a derailment due to tilt in the career scenario for the SD70 (I don't usually use the CM scenarios) not long after the starting point. Could it be the physics changes for super-elevation? Anytime I've derailed due to car tilt I'm pretty sure it's been at a switch, speed >5 mph, <8 mph. I've been finding that 3 to 4.9 mph seems ok...?

Kind regards,
Dave

[Kali]

Okay, another version of the SD40 to play with, this time with a coal hopper too. The RWP is attached to the post, the SD40 is "SD40-2 Black Dynamod", and the matching coal hopper for testing this is "Hopper Coal 14% Brakes" ( which it isn't anymore, but I didn't get round to changing it :p ). The brakes are set up for when the car is loaded, can't do anything about them being too strong when it isn't unfortunately.

I also - rather crudely as I'm not really sure how the implementation works yet - hacked a bit off the dyna brakes, possibly a bit much. Things I haven't done yet

* adjusted the brake timings depending on the length of the train, which is as near as we're going to get to proper brake propogation and I think given the current sensitivity RW has, probably quite important to stop derailments :p
* locked the dyna brake handle in setup until it is actually set up, alá Genesis. Also probably quite important to stop inadvertant derailments in the current state of play.

( see this isn't just about realism ;) )

[Bart35]

WOW!!! any chance writing one for the 38-2