Alco RS11 announced

[Boldri]

if you like the sound now, Minnesota Commercials RS27 and I have a date with a recorder soon, so new sound is bound to crop up.

Oh, it looks like You still aren't satisfied with this sound?...
Or is new model of RS27 hiding somewhere around? ..
Nevermind, I'm looking forward for results of Your date :)
Enjoy and don't forget to grab camera too and take some pics.

[Rich_S]

... Out of curiosity can some one explain the relative merits of long hood vs short hood forward.

The way I heard it, back in the '60s, primarily from crews on the Central Vermont and the Southern, was that the crews "liked all that iron out in front of 'em in case of collision." In this case, the collisions they were referring to were motor vehicles blocking grade crossings for whatever reason. In addition (and forgive me if I've mentioned this before), the Central Vermont guys told me that a run-of-the-mill GP-9 went for about $250,000 when they were built, with long hood forward as the standard configuration. It cost an extra $10,000 per unit to run all the control cables, air pipes and so forth if you wanted to run them short hood forward. If you were dieselizing in a hurry, and most railroads were in those days, it was basically a choice of 26 of the standard model to 25 of the deluxe. To the green eyeshade types in the general office building, the choice was usually obvious, and their managers booked the orders accordingly. I would be surprised if the cost differential were significantly different for Alco (or Baldwin, for that matter, despite their tendency to be far less systematic about pipes and cables). If I had to guess, the money probably outweighed any other considerations, and the crews, who had enjoyed even less visibility down the sides of large boilers, were probably glad for the improvement as well as the protection.

Phil, all EMD locomotives are wired exactly the same regardless of which end you place the "F" on, the same thing applies to GE locomotives. Note: I'm not saying GE and EMD locomotives are wired the same, I'm saying a long hood lead SD40-2 is wired exactly the same as a short hood lead SD40-2. The only real difference between a long hood lead and a short hood lead is the side the control stand is mounted on. The #1 traction motor is always under the cab, the only minor difference between the two is, two wires on the reverser. There were even a few roads like the N&W and EL that had locomotives with control stands on both sides of the cab. Like you mentioned, the Southern Railway and the N&W Railroad had long hood lead locomotives, because steam engines had their cabs on the rear of the locomotive and the crews were use to having the locomotive between them and a potential grade crossing accident.

Regards,
Rich S.

[philmoberg]

Phil, all EMD locomotives are wired exactly the same regardless of which end you place the "F" on, the same thing applies to GE locomotives. ...

I had a cousin who briefly worked on "second generation" Geeps (in those days, this term referred to the 645-engined models) at the Harmon shop, back in the late-'70s. He told me essentially the same thing, it having something to do with the difference in the way EMD handled the electrical cabinets from the earlier models. At the time, it surprised me how quickly EMD implemented further improvements on the dash-2s, it having been barely half a decade since the 645-eingined models were introduced into the market. This is an excellent example of one of the chief reasons their locomotives were so successful in the market: they learned quickly from their mistakes and quickly delivered standard solutions that simplified things for those who had to maintain them. This particular set of improvements was so successful that Paducah ultimately adopted dash-2 cabs and electrical cabinets for their final rebuilds of earlier Geeps.

I probably should have clarified my comments as referring to first generation diesels only, which for the most part, started out adapting then-current practice from electric locomotives and gas-electric cars. In a way, it's unfortunate that the market for diesels grew as quickly as it did in the late-'40s and early-'50s: it's possible that all builders would have had a chance to implement improvements like these sooner. As it was, it was all they could do to compete for sales and keep up with their production volume to catch their breath and rethink their designs in depth. The very few times any of the builders tried to do this - the Alco PA is the classic example - the results were barely worth the effort.

[Rich_S]

I had a cousin who briefly worked on "second generation" Geeps (in those days, this term referred to the 645-engined models) at the Harmon shop, back in the late-'70s. He told me essentially the same thing, it having something to do with the difference in the way EMD handled the electrical cabinets from the earlier models.

Phil,
I don't want to get to far off subject as this thread is about the ALCO RS11, but basically all EMD locomotives built before 1972 had low voltage relays that were used to control high voltage contactors. In 1972 EMD released the Dash 2 line which replaced a lot of the low voltage relays with Modules. These modules look like component cards you'd place in your computer, except they are a lot bigger.

EMD-dash-2-modules.jpg

They also make trouble shooting a lot easier. But times marches on and when EMD released the EM2000 on board computer, it replaced the modules. Trying to get back on topic here, I've never seen a ALCO RS11 up close and personal, but I did get a chance to look under the hood of a ALCO C630, I know where GE got the idea for their FDL power assemblies

Regards,
Rich S.

[philmoberg]

... Trying to get back on topic here, I've never seen a ALCO RS11 up close and personal, but I did get a chance to look under the hood of a ALCO C630, I know where GE got the idea for their FDL power assemblies
...

Thanks for the info on the dash-2 electronics. I'd known there were "significant differences" but this is the first time I've heard what they actually were. I appreciate your solving that mystery for me.

Back to Alco, it wouldn't surprise me that GE took a lot of inspiration from Schenectady: their collaboration went back to the early days of big electrics. By the time GE got into the big locomotive business, the handwriting was on the wall for Alco. The newest GE I ever worked on was a 44-Tonner, helping a handful of highly-experienced guys rebuild two Cat V-8s (I did more learning than helping), so I have no experience with FDLs myself. There were a bunch of RS-11s still running around southern Connecticut at that point, but I never got a look inside any of them, at least not at close range. I did have some limited experience with an RS-3, but that was an older and less sophisticated beast. FWIW, I thought the RS-11 was probably the best looking of Alco's hood units: it was a nice, balanced design.

[buzz456]

The worst thing that could happen to you all is I move this to the Jungle. I find this interesting.

[NDORFN]

Yeah this is actually really interesting... and educational. Good way to pass the time while I re-download most of Railworks after just hashing my whole assets folder.