Elvis (SMM) has left the building

[buzz456]

Chris,
I think you are missing the point. UGC means User Generated Content, in other words, my Montour route, Jerry's NSAND route, IAN's GP60's and the list goes on. So now my point, if someone at RSC decides hay, that Montour route is a nice little route. With the above statement they can take my route, tweak it to their liking and sell it as DLC. Now comes the wrench in the gears, what happens if I make a update to my route and distribute it after RSC begins selling my route as DLC? Am I pirating DLC when it started off as the route I created? I realize chances are very slim that RSC has any interest in my Montour route and I'm using it only as an example, but in a nut shell with this new EULA, RSC has stated they can take anything we create and use it for their own financial gain. Why would any of us wish to continue producing anything for Train Simulator 2013? Something to think about?

Rich S.

I think that's a stretch.

[artimrj]

Rich are the default assets in your route actually in your asset package? If so why? But I don't think they are. They are only referenced. The other assets you have are made by you or someone else right? So now you think RSC is going to take everyone's assets and sell them? I do not think so. There would be a civil war with all the assets in the NERW. I really don't think you have to worry nor do I about our routes being taken over.

As for the assets packs that were default. We will just have to let people who never owned RW3/TS2012 they will have to buy them from RSC because they changed everything. It is not our fault and there is nothing we can do. So either buy the two asset packages or buy one of the old routes that will get you both asset packages and you will be good to go and have another route from the process. I bet every body here has already bought every US item there is available. Why would new users be any different. The old routes and the asset paks are the cheapest things there. Thats what I bought first.

Now the weekend is here, you are not going to hear anything from RSC until Monday now as they take off on the weekends also. They are people just like us. They know and they have to be doing something. It just takes some time. We have to give them a little. If there is no new results then they will get told again and again if necessary. All we are looking for is clarification of what is going on. When they know, we will know.

[arizonachris]

Jerry, you are right. RSC's assets never were free, but they did come with the default RW routes and you didn't have to buy them seperate.

Rich, I also think the same thing, that with that one paragraph, RSC thinks they can have a license to steal. That scares me for exactly the reason you said. But, EULA or not, theft is theft. If RSC actually ever tries that watch the lawsuits fly. I just hope RSC gets something done about this situation before we lose more talent.

[hermit9153]

Rich, I also think the same thing, that with that one paragraph, RSC thinks they can have a license to steal. That scares me for exactly the reason you said. But, EULA or not, theft is theft. If RSC actually ever tries that watch the lawsuits fly. I just hope RSC gets something done about this situation before we lose more talent.

Just a quick one in between flights.
That's exactly what I said in one of my posts. The UK is 100% part of the EU, even if some on either side of the Channel don't like that much. Therefore UK law is FIRMLY bound into EU law whether they like it or not!
If RSC as much as tries to pinch interllectual property (guys tag your stuff so you will have proof it's yours!!!!!!) it only takes 5 individuals to file a complaint with the European Court in Strassburg (which is totally free of charge) and they'll get blasted into oblivion. Indeed THEFT is THEFT and there's no court on earth that will condone that in spite of what ANY EULA states. There will be no lawyer crazy enough to defend them, it's a loose/loose situation.
And since the RSC EULA states that only the law/courts of England and Wales are applicable/competent, whatever any US law states or fails to state is immaterial!
What really amazes me in all of this! Take a look at RSC management (a bit top heavy by the way), they all seem to be experienced, educated people. HTH do they think they can pull this of?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

... (guys tag your stuff so you will have proof it's yours!!!!!!) ...

A simple (c) or watermark, perhaps even invisible, in your texture or shape file will do? Or does every freeware asset pack henceforth has to come with an EULA the user has to agree upon? I hate those installers, as they clutter the start menu and system registry.

What about script files, obfuscate them? RSC's new ES44 engine script uses code snippets that look exactly like G-Trax's from the P42DC to make the SDIS work, even in obfuscated form the variable names are the same, as it the function's structure. All these engine scripts follow the same general structure, it is hard to claim any rights to a script but I believe code snippets/critical routines have been succesfully claimed in courts before.

[ENR3005]

I am going to put my own spin on this, having done a previous post at the Train-sim one. There may be a good reason for the changing of the language within the new document which was suggested over on the other forum. Google Orca Railway which brings up a profile of a company on the right along with some shots of their offerings which will look strangely familiar to most of us but offered as a professional training package if you dig into some of the other available links. Their website is currently offline. This matter we are all debating is not likely an effort to kill the work of all the freeware and payware vendors of this community. This is more of a matter of them trying to absolve themselves of liability and preventing anyone from trying to re-package and sell their software as a training solution. I suspect that the document will be amended at some point to clarify things as it looks like it may have been hastily written. This may be as simple as it is folks. It would be sad to think we might all be jumping off the bridge for nothing at this time as the language of the document was not really intended for the receipents who actually got it. It could be more of a 12th hour effort to get out of dodge for something they might have not even been aware was going on till recently. My two bits for today.

[ex-railwayman]

What really amazes me in all of this! Take a look at RSC management (a bit top heavy by the way), they all seem to be experienced, educated people. HTH do they think they can pull this of?

Probably because the majority of their customers are 14 year old kids, who by default have no legal knowledge, business sense, or, anything else, that would allow them to defend themselves legally against RSC. They're more likely to just accept everything that RSC state because they don't know any better, and just play the game, which RSC are overjoyed about 'cos it means they have no legal worries to sort out, being under the thumb, suppressed, call it what you like, we adults know what they're doing to the end-users, but, the juniors don't care about things like that, they just wanna play.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[johnmckenzie]

I am going to put my own spin on this, having done a previous post at the Train-sim one. There may be a good reason for the changing of the language within the new document which was suggested over on the other forum. Google Orca Railway which brings up a profile of a company on the right along with some shots of their offerings which will look strangely familiar to most of us but offered as a professional training package if you dig into some of the other available links. Their website is currently offline. This matter we are all debating is not likely an effort to kill the work of all the freeware and payware vendors of this community. This is more of a matter of them trying to absolve themselves of liability and preventing anyone from trying to re-package and sell their software as a training solution. I suspect that the document will be amended at some point to clarify things as it looks like it may have been hastily written. This may be as simple as it is folks. It would be sad to think we might all be jumping off the bridge for nothing at this time as the language of the document was not really intended for the receipents who actually got it. It could be more of a 12th hour effort to get out of dodge for something they might have not even been aware was going on till recently. My two bits for today.

My thoughts exactly. I don't for one second think RSC want to alienate people who make the purchasing of their software more desirable - far from it!

[amtrack505]

I think you guys should take a look at Elvis's website. "Give yourself to the Dark Side..."

[eyein12]

moral of the story dont get on this guys bad side seems like.

[hminky]

I tried to really like Trainz but the graphics engine is truly awful:

Someone asked about those blank tiles on the horizon.



Here is the fanboy answer:

It's a persistent issue that has been around a long time. I read another thread that claims it's something to do with the way the ground textures are made. Other than that, I just dismiss it as a heat mirage.

Also if you swing around in the outside view all the assets pop in and out of view.

Graphically the worse game on the market in any genre. Most of the community just makes screenshots so they don't know the game doesn't work.

Thanks for Railworks 2013 or I would be out of the train-sim world.

Harold

[ArcticCatZRT]

I bout fell out of my chair from laughter when I noticed it was trainz. He went from a community where realism is our #1 goal to a community where realism isn't even on the radar

Trainz really isn't that bad, yes there are issues here and there just as there are in RS13. I just have never been able to get into it, if that is what Jerry wants to spend his time on, good for him!

[hminky]

Trainz really isn't that bad, yes there are issues here and there just as there are in RS13. I just have never been able to get into it, if that is what Jerry wants to spend his time on, good for him!

Trainz is like dating a person that isn't quite right, you really want to like them but in the end it isn't worth the effort.

Harold

[SMMDigital]

Perhaps your graphics card or computer isn't up to snuff, or you don't understand how to adjust your in-game settings. I'm not experiencing stutters that i've seen other people complain about, nor have I seen scenery popping in and out of the scenes. Is it as pretty as Railworks? No, but it's not ugly either, and neither have I been hit by an AI train when I was late for the next siding on single track. It is kinda hard though having to get used to waiting for the brakes to recharge and release after an emergency application, or having wait a long time for a loaded train to get up to speed on a grade.

I'm pretty impressed with it so far, especially since I got it for $12.00 and it already had Mojave Sub, GP60's, 60-B's, 840-B's, SD45's, and an Appalachian Sub that has a Y6. Jointed Rail really does some good work. As long as I don't get into the development side of things, I think I could grow to like this game.

Railworks is like marrying a beautiful woman, and finding out on the honeymoon night that the plumbing is all wrong!

Toodles!

P.S. - Just in case you haven't noticed, this is a Railworks forum. If you have an issue with me, the games I choose to play, or my website, then feel free to e-mail me at the address provided on that site, rather than starting a silly war here.

[hminky]

Perhaps your graphics card or computer isn't up to snuff, or you don't understand how to adjust your in-game settings. I'm not experiencing stutters that i've seen other people complain about, nor have I seen scenery popping in and out of the scenes. Toodles!

Spoken like a true believer.

Lordy, lordy, you have seen the light!!!

Harold

EDIT: I am running an i7-2600K, Nvidia Geforce GTX 560ti, 16GB of ram on Win7-64 and have had Trainz 12 on an SSD and it is a DOG. The first Trainz I bought was 2009 and it is still great.