The new EULA and commercial add-ons

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Do these EU regulations apply to the UK since it is not a full fledged EU member?

Don't worry, we've been fully sold down the river. We're not in the Euro of course, but they're not the same thing.

Cheers

Bob

I don't fully understand, Bob, sorry.

You mean to say these EU regulations on intellectual property rights are valid in the UK, superseeding UK law?
In that case, it is another argument for us TS2012 buyers that were updated to RS2013 to declare that EULA as illegal and nil.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Its probably not a bad idea to take steam offline while this discussion is live and hot, so IF RSC decides to 'show us whos boss' they cant reach in to our computers and remove it.

The only thing I can think of that would save them legally is if the previous EULA versions stated something to the effect of "I agree to this and every future EULA", but I dont see that anywhere.

How do they even know the people posting here and their Steam account details?
It not like there is a supplier vs. users war going on, and this isn't Apple vs. Samsung either. RSC is only a small oufit, no doubt they mean well. Equally, the commercial and freeware suppliers want to be acknowlegded in their rights and property, and I assume they mean well and want to stay in business also.

No, I think that measure is unnecessary. These small print details will get sorted due to the number of validly argumented email they are receiving on this subject.
Just to feel safe you can switch your Steam to offline mode of course.

[MontanaRails]

How do they even know the people posting here and their Steam account details?
No, I think that measure is unnecessary. These small print details will get sorted due to the number of validly argumented email they are receiving on this subject.
Just to feel safe you can switch your Steam to offline mode of course.

That is a good point. They don't necessarily, but I don't want to take any chances when its so easy to prevent. Its just something to think about.

[michbret]

My personal analysis is that this excessive EULA is part of an overall strategy.

Some days before the TS2013 upgrade, I have posted this analysis to the steam forum : http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2941007

This analysis has triggered some interesting comments and reactions.

This is now confirmed and a new TS2013 user who want to buy the old TS2012 assets and route perimeter will have to pay a big amount of money (and he will not get all the route).

There is also another point: More than half of the former DLC (e.g. GP9, SW1500, ...) have disappeared from Steam Catalogue.

If you have a look to some commercial third party offering this a big kill for their business (E.g. 75% of Footeforward product catalogue is not anymore accessible to new users since required DLC are not on sell - Almost the same thing for Train & Driver, Armstrong Powerhouse and so on).

So at the same time RSC has
- suppressed what we called the "core game" from the game thus jeopardizing many freeware and commercial products
- made part of this "old core" DLC payware which now install in different location so freeware and commercial products have to be re engineered (and become also more expensive for new users)
- suppressed more than half of the former DLC sold on Steam thus rendering many freeware and commercial products inaccessible for new users
- written down an hyper restrictive EULA

I am not an adept of conspiracy theories but these are now facts.

If I take a cynical stance, these moves are
- a mean to make additional money with the work of freeware and commercial add-ons (for new users)
- a mean to restrict (at best) third party commercial activity to a pool of selected developers/companies controlled by RSC through licence agreement to be negotiated

So I am not surprised that some have already thrown in the towel .

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Its probably not a bad idea to disable auto updates and take steam offline while this discussion is live and hot, so IF RSC decides to 'show us whos boss' they cant reach in to our computers and remove it.

The only thing I can think of that would save them legally is if the previous EULA versions stated something to the effect of "I agree to this and every future EULA", but I dont see that anywhere.

Well, if running a certain game means the player's computer is under great risk, no doubt Steam can shut that game down. RSC will have to seriously plead with Valve to have Steam shut our TS2013's down. This is nowhere serious enough.

There are no open hostilities between RSC and its consumers, it is just a legal debate and I doubt those who bought TS2013 just "to play with trains" probably don't even know let alone care about this at all.

It will get sorted, and since the arguments are not in RSC's favour, they will have to alter their EULA. I still don't know if the UK TS2013 community is in uproar also, or if it is just the US community that is revolting against unfair conditions forced upon them.

They must show they care about their players, otherwise most players will loose their faith and take their business elsewhere.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

If I take a cynical stance, these moves are
- a mean to make additional money with the work of freeware and commercial add-ons (for new users)
- a mean to restrict (at best) third party commercial activity to a pool of selected developers/companies controlled by RSC through licence agreement to be negotiated

So I am not surprised that some have already thrown in the towel .

How many times did you have to buy new gear just because a hardware supplier like Sony or Apple decided to "upgrade" its still perfectly suited products rendering your previous investment worthless while the product itself continues to serve you well?
Unfortunate but true, and since we love these products so much we think we cannot do without them, we will buy the new "upgraded" HiFi, I-something or whatever, and they know it. Otherwise, they just change a plug or receptacle and you are forced to upgrade.

I am more concerned about your second line of argument: are RSC really interested in the US or continental Europe, let alone world (Japan/China etc.) market? It they want to license their core assets or core simulator routines out to third party suppliers for money we are in trouble. Most of the DLC houses are only small and cannot afford huge license fees.
Hence my questions as how do IHH, JT, AP etc. deal with this EULA?

[SMMDigital]

...and since the arguements are not in their favor, they will have to alter the EULA

That would be the smart thing to do, but it's not what will neccessarily happen. You have to remember, RSC has desgined this latest, ummm, TrainSimulator, to reach a wide audience ( i.e. the casual gamer). If some of the comments that have been claimed to have been said by Company management are true, then i would say if the hard-core train enthusaists ( you know, the ones that know what a Dynamic Brake handle is really for ) were to conveniently disappear, it would be a great relief to RSC. No one around to call them when they've done something stupid, like this. Then, they get on with turning this who thing into something akin to Sid Meyers Railroads so they can sell to every kid with an Xbox.

Don't be too surprised if they come back with "this is what it is, it needs no clarification".

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Don't be too surprised if they come back with "this is what it is, it needs no clarification".

Could be, but it is still illegal and they can get sued. Not that any of us individually is likely to file a lawsuit against a small UK company.
So for now we stand behind our community leaders in voicing our concerns and putting our arguments forth.

I think that if we apply enough pressure and perhaps even seek publicity in the professional media of game houses' trade press, there is a real chance of success and a fair to all parties EULA.

This wil probably my last posting on this subject, as I think I have exhausted my arguments and posting around in circles is of no use. I have faith in our community leaders and await its resolve with great interest.

[MontanaRails]

Don't be too surprised if they come back with "this is what it is, it needs no clarification".

Very possible, but to me its clear what will happen if this is their official response; they will lose much of the existing community/customer base, and the remainder of it will ignore the EULA. As I said before, it would take an extreme effort on their part to hunt down and enforce this. It seems they have no choice.

[hertsbob]

Righty ho then.

Cheers

Bob