ORTS?

[august1929]

Once ORTS is up and fully functioning it will not be tied to MSTS' apron strings - trust me, it will be a contender for decent quality visual and, importantly, physics, rail simulation.

A few dismissive posts above, but as someone who seamlessly moves between Railworks, MSTS and Open Rails, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of all of them. The real big upside of Open Rails is that it will run the many very high quality addons for MSTS as well as stock, in particular, engines, designed specifically for the sim.

One example is Bazzas DRGW engine on Gtrax DRGW for Railworks - designed, originally, to run in Open Rails. What more need be said.

Open Rails also doesn't need a state of the art computer to be able to run it at high spec. Don't knock it until you've tried it - and by trying it I don't mean a quick 5 minutes - that is only enough to realise you can't use the same controls as Railworks.

All in all - I like RW, MSTS and OR (not that keen on Trainz)

RW has good visuals, but poor simulation, works differently on different systems and sometimes refuses to work at all - also tied into Steam which can produce its own problems. Potentially very expensive if you are continually tempted by DLC.

MSTS is old, but on a good rig (or even a half decent rig) produces good simulation, good visuals, apart from cruciform trees and foliage, and even these can be sorted out with skilful placement and modelling. Ground texturing can be good and very accurate - also high resolution, unlike RW low res ground textures.

Open Rails takes all of MSTS one stage further, with in game changes to weather, lighting etc. clickable switches and uncoupling etc. AND it is free and being supported by volunteer enthusiasts who are not in it to make money - but who want a good quality, workable simulation of trains with good visuals - seems just about top of the heap to me :)

Check out visuals - 2 from Open Rails then MSTS below. I don't have many shots from OR, but it runs what's below within MSTS perfectly, with good physics and visuals....

Click to see full size.

Open Rails





MSTS











All three, RW, MSTS and OR staying on my rig :)

Rod

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Check out visuals from and Open Rails then MSTS below. I don't have many shots from OR, but it runs what's below perfectly, with good physics and visuals....

What Open Rails route and rolling stock is that? Where can I get it?

[hminky]

A few dismissive posts above, but as someone who seamlessly moves between Railworks, MSTS and Open Rails, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of all of them. The real big upside of Open Rails is that it will run the many very high quality addons for MSTS as well as stock, in particular, engines, designed specifically for the sim.

Sorry, I find that rather "patronizing". I also move "seamlessly" thru those sims and Trainz also.

I have yet to find a version of OpenRails that really works.

I guess OpenRails is officially a big time sim now we are getting posts that "the emperor is fully clothed".

It is still only a run A to B sim but that is all most people want. I have yet to run a "switching" activity that worked.

OpenRails is chained to the corpse of the MSTS editors. There is no way an average "shmuck" can build a route in MSTS.

Harold

EDIT: Unless you have a "1600 x 1200" monitor MSTS will look bad:



MSTS is great on a 1600x1200 monitor. OpenRails won't run that activity as the switches don't work.

[august1929]

Sorry, I find that rather "patronizing". I also move "seamlessly" thru those sims and Trainz also.
I have yet to find a version of OpenRails that really works.
I guess OpenRails is officially big time time sim now we are getting posts that "the emperor is fully clothed".
It is still only a run A to B sim but that is all most people want. I have yet to run a "switching" activity that worked.
OpenRails is chained to the corpse of the MSTS editors. There is no way an average "shmuck" can build a route in MSTS.
Harold

Well I'm glad you got some value out of my post Harold though I didn't define my seamless movement so I am not certain you can make a direct comparison

To provide my experience, every version has "worked" for me, but it depends what you mean by work. The earliest versions were only likely to have limited funcionality. That functionality has increased with each version. You quote yourself that the current "Beta" is .8, so surely you don't expect a fully functioning simulator at this stage?

"Shmuck" - isn't that an offensive term?

Lotta MSTS guys claim it will be the second coming.

Now that is patronising.


As I said above, RW, MSTS and OR will be staying on my rig. Nothing to get steamed up about - they are all rail simulators and I can never understand the partisan attitude towards one sim or another. If a sim isn't to someone's liking, they don't have to use it.

Re current state of Open Rails - have a look at the experimental release page, that explains the present state.

http://www.openrails.org/experimental.html

Rod

[hminky]

Sorry, I am a "schmuck" and the MSTS editors are from "the pits of hell".

Harold

[august1929]

MSTS editors are from "the pits of hell".

Harold

Now I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that - there has been more than one time when I have certainly screamed like a soul tormented when the RE has crashed on me, only to wipe out everything on an entire tile (backups available thanks to Mike Simpson's sterling efforts in MSTS - Route Riter - before he moved on to "save" Railworks for those who can't help but tweak & fiddle with RW Tools... )

Rod

[Rich_S]

Rod,
You have truly mastered Mosaic, your route looks fantastic But in the same token that is a problem currently with MSTS and until the Open Rails team releases their own editors will also be a problem with ORTS. The original author of both DEMEX and Mosaic stopped supporting those products many years ago. I've read on other forums, some people are having problems purchasing the products through SWREG, although the link currently works for me. Having built three routes in MSTS I completely understand how frustrating the RE can be at times, I use to backup on a daily basis and only work in the RE in two hour increments trying to avoid crashes. I have a lot of respect for Wayne and his dedicated ORTS team, yes the application is still in beta and it still does not handle the semaphore signals correctly used on my 1940's L&HR route, but on the other hand the ORTS team has already added functionally to ORTS that was not originally available in MSTS even with the MSTS Bin patch. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Multiplayer, which seems to be the direction the team is currently headed maybe because of the release of Run-8? but I'm hoping when they finally release a Open Rails Route Editor, it will have some type of Demex and Mosaic capabilities built in, like what is currently available in Rail Works. When that day arrives and the ability to create a true Open Rail route, all I have to say is look out Rail Works


Regards,
Rich S.

[stresstool]

...Multiplayer, which seems to be the direction the team is currently headed...

I am not inclined to that conclusion. The ORTS team is all volunteer. It appears one of the volunteers has taken it upon himself to incorporate multi-player and has done so with a vengeance. Kudos to him for his determination and, as it appears, some excellent results. I am with you in that I, too, am not interested in MP, but I am not prepared to suggest that is the only thing the other ORTS volunteers are interested in doing. Instead, I am inclined to believe the other members of the team have other things going on in their lives and cannot work on the project at the pace of or have the ability to devote the same time to it as is that one individual.

Because of that, the things about the project that you (and I and others) might think more pressing and/or more interesting, do not get the same attention. I think it would be wise of all of us to neither expect it nor, especially, demand it. Nor draw any conclusions about a particular direction the project may suddenly turn. I suspect it is 100% due to who has time to work on what and when. ORTS has tremendous, and as far I can see unlimited, potential.

I believe anyone with the ability could become one of the volunteers and further advance the project. hint...hint

[buzz456]

A lot of this can be said of RW also.

[Rich_S]

...Multiplayer, which seems to be the direction the team is currently headed...

I am not inclined to that conclusion. The ORTS team is all volunteer. It appears one of the volunteers has taken it upon himself to incorporate multi-player and has done so with a vengeance. Kudos to him for his determination and, as it appears, some excellent results. I am with you in that I, too, am not interested in MP, but I am not prepared to suggest that is the only thing the other ORTS volunteers are interested in doing. Instead, I am inclined to believe the other members of the team have other things going on in their lives and cannot work on the project at the pace of or have the ability to devote the same time to it as is that one individual.

Because of that, the things about the project that you (and I and others) might think more pressing and/or more interesting, do not get the same attention. I think it would be wise of all of us to neither expect it nor, especially, demand it. Nor draw any conclusions about a particular direction the project may suddenly turn. I suspect it is 100% due to who has time to work on what and when. ORTS has tremendous, and as far I can see unlimited, potential.

I believe anyone with the ability could become one of the volunteers and further advance the project. hint...hint

Hi Stresstool,
My comment was not meant as a bash against the ORTS team, but merely an observation based on the recent Revision History of the experimental version. As I stated above, I have the highest respect for Wayne and the entire Open Rails Team. So I don't believe Multi-player is their only focus, but at this time based on the Revision History they seem to be spending a lot of time working on Multi-player. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I just stated I'm not really interested at this time in Multi-player. Who knows, maybe next month will be signal month? One thing I am sure of, once the ORTS team releases a updated Route Editor with a lot of tools we currently have in Rail Works, the ORTS will become a force to be reckoned with

Regards,
Rich S.

[glenn68]

Rod,
You have truly mastered Mosaic, your route looks fantastic But in the same token that is a problem currently with MSTS and until the Open Rails team releases their own editors will also be a problem with ORTS. The original author of both DEMEX and Mosaic stopped supporting those products many years ago. I've read on other forums, some people are having problems purchasing the products through SWREG, although the link currently works for me. Having built three routes in MSTS I completely understand how frustrating the RE can be at times, I use to backup on a daily basis and only work in the RE in two hour increments trying to avoid crashes. I have a lot of respect for Wayne and his dedicated ORTS team, yes the application is still in beta and it still does not handle the semaphore signals correctly used on my 1940's L&HR route, but on the other hand the ORTS team has already added functionally to ORTS that was not originally available in MSTS even with the MSTS Bin patch. To be honest, I'm not that interested in Multiplayer, which seems to be the direction the team is currently headed maybe because of the release of Run-8? but I'm hoping when they finally release a Open Rails Route Editor, it will have some type of Demex and Mosaic capabilities built in, like what is currently available in Rail Works. When that day arrives and the ability to create a true Open Rail route, all I have to say is look out Rail Works


Regards,
Rich S.

RIch, I agree to a point. Open rails is like putting a digital readout on a old tube driven radio. In order to use the MSTS editor you have to switch your graphices down to 16 bit color, if not anything above that will cause the editor to crash. I wished that Microsoft would have stayed with the upkeep of MSTS, but money comes first.


Glenn

[Rich_S]

Hi Glenn,
Yes, currently ORTS is tied to MSTS so even though many new in game options have been added, you're still stuck using the MSTS editors. But I feel once the ORTS team finally releases a true Open Rails Route Editor all that will change. From my own personal experience, I've found frame rates in ORTS are double the frame rates in MSTS, which is a big step in the right direction. Only time will tell where the ORTS team will take the simulator, but for the time being it is nice to run the classic MSTS routes in a application that uses a modern graphics engine, just remember this thing is still in beta so not everything works perfectly right out of the box, but they are getting there

Regards,
Rich S.

[glenn68]

Hi Glenn,
Yes, currently ORTS is tied to MSTS so even though many new in game options have been added, you're still stuck using the MSTS editors. But I feel once the ORTS team finally releases a true Open Rails Route Editor all that will change. From my own personal experience, I've found frame rates in ORTS are double the frame rates in MSTS, which is a big step in the right direction. Only time will tell where the ORTS team will take the simulator, but for the time being it is nice to run the classic MSTS routes in a application that uses a modern graphics engine, just remember this thing is still in beta so not everything works perfectly right out of the box, but they are getting there

Regards,
Rich S.

Rich,
I agree the frame rates were up, but all the problems and bugs (at the time) that Open rails had made the program usless for my taste.

Glenn

[Rich_S]

Rich,
I agree the frame rates were up, but all the problems and bugs (at the time) that Open rails had made the program usless for my taste.

Glenn

Glenn,
Have you tired the current beta version of ORTS (beta 0.8)? I'm still finding new features that did not exist in MSTS. Yes I've found a few bugs here and there, but again this thing is still beta, once the ORTS team releases a non-beta version I'm hoping they'll have all of the bugs corrected. For me it's nice to run some of the classic MSTS routes like the LS&I Michigan Iron Ore with the scenery updates, D&RGW Solder Summit and WP Feather River routes in a new interface. It's like the old saying, variety is the spice of life, heck I still have Train Master 4 installed on my computer, but I must admit it looks horrible. How things have changed in the past 12 years.

Regards,
Rich S.

[GSkid]

I would try Open Rails, but I don't have my copy of MSTS handy cuz I have it packed in a box somewhere back in Wisconsin in storage. I had to quit my job and rush back to California on short notice to caretake for both my ailing mother and 87yo grandmother cuz family comes first.

I read somewhere that it is possible to run it without MSTS, but I'm guessing it would be a headache to set up and would need a 3rd party route and assets to do it. I've read you must have the folder structure set up like MSTS in order to do this as well. I haven't read any step by step on how to try it out without MSTS nor what user made routes and assets I can use to accomplish this. Definitely interested though.

Anybody that has a suggestion on how to do it, I'm all ears.