Hyper elevation on curves???

[PamBrooker]

All types. Happens with tanks, intermodal's, slab sides, auto parts: It doesnt seem to matter.. I'm reverifying my files now, and i'll change out the engines when i start it back up..
Addendum.. Changed out the dd-40s for 5 Dash-9s ( typical lashup for the region i live in ) and the train derailed in a completely different place.. I'm suspecting its the auto parts cars but cant be sure..

[arizonachris]

You know, if you bought that DD40X version one from Cesar (Lord Mannu) he will upgrade it to his latest version for free. Just send him a PM. I like his model better than the RSC model.

[PamBrooker]

You know, if you bought that DD40X version one from Cesar (Lord Mannu) he will upgrade it to his latest version for free. Just send him a PM. I like his model better than the RSC model.

I added to the post in the payware announce section and am hoping he sees it.. Love that thing.. My only complaint with the original was that for three thousand horses, it couldnt get over 40 mph.. but, well,, i play with dynamics ( aircraft ) for an occupation and took care of that lil problem :)..
I'll drop him a PM as well..
:)

[Machinist]

All types. Happens with tanks, intermodal's, slab sides, auto parts: It doesnt seem to matter.. I'm reverifying my files now, and i'll change out the engines when i start it back up..
Addendum.. Changed out the dd-40s for 5 Dash-9s ( typical lashup for the region i live in ) and the train derailed in a completely different place.. I'm suspecting its the auto parts cars but cant be sure..

Use only default assets for testing purpose, for now (ES44AC and box car, only one type), so you can start to isolate the problem. Dash 9 has a lovely cab but a bad DB, and DB is champion on the derailments thingy.

A tip: In F5 HUD you have the train's front speed, in F4 you have the consist's rear speed. They must be quite similar, or at least not exceed 8-10mph. I've already saw (before Britkits asset) ther rear (no DPU) running 12mph faster then front and I was going on uphill! Go figure! The RW3 dodgy physics...

[PamBrooker]

All types. Happens with tanks, intermodal's, slab sides, auto parts: It doesnt seem to matter.. I'm reverifying my files now, and i'll change out the engines when i start it back up..
Addendum.. Changed out the dd-40s for 5 Dash-9s ( typical lashup for the region i live in ) and the train derailed in a completely different place.. I'm suspecting its the auto parts cars but cant be sure..

Use only default assets for testing purpose, for now (ES44AC and box car, only one type), so you can start to isolate the problem. Dash 9 has a lovely cab but a bad DB, and DB is champion on the derailments thingy.

A tip: In F5 HUD you have the train's front speed, in F4 you have the consist's rear speed. They must be quite similar, or at least not exceed 8-10mph. I've already saw (before Britkits asset) ther rear (no DPU) running 12mph faster then front and I was going on uphill! Go figure! The RW3 dodgy physics...

But but.... :pout::
ok..garbage skow it is... ::sigh::
on another note, odd thing is, when i hit F4 the hud disappears.. I'm not able to come up with the various numbers you and others have described.. its weird..

[PamBrooker]

dern but that was a lot of work.. 5 ec-44s and 59 tank cars.. had to use sand going up the grade. made it almost a mile further. Chris and Hawk know the grade i'm talking about. Its the one leading up to the summit. Its a 9% grade and the curves arent that terribly tight, but as the train derailed at 7.3 mph i suspect that railworks thinks they are. I'll take a passenger train up and see what results i get..


EDIT:: yeahhh, the passenger train made it with no problem at 35 mph..
I remember watching the F4 speeds ( in the freight train ) all the way up the hill, and even though there was no visible change in speed on the lead engine, the reported speeds were all over the place from 1.2 to 7.3 moh just going up that hill.. If distributed power was correctly modeled, i chpuld put an engine or two at the rear of the train and they would maintain the same speed as the engines in the front of the train. That may work, as long as I dont exceed 5 mph anywhere on that hill. maybe tomorrow :)..
Pam

[arizonachris]

Gads, how can you use that Fisher Price F4 HUD. I can't stand it. I have to use the old school F3 and F5 HUD's

Yeah, I know that grade. It's a real beach! Good thing these engines have unlimited sand supply. Like Tori's route with the Big Boy and that coal drag in the rain.

It's all fun.

[PamBrooker]

heheh.. I cant stand the hud, but it does serve a purpose.. its edjamkatin me..
Ok, heres the scenario.. Youve got sixty cars stretched out over almost three quarters of a mile. If you put engines just in the front, the back end will stretch out from the weight, and then recoil. the result is that the back end compresses up against the front end, and you derail.. Senario two. Same thing, only now youve put an engine or two in the back. Everything is fine, till the front part of your train is going uphill, and the back part is still on flat ground. since the engines in the front need more power to keep moving, there is a power offset differential between the front engines and the rear engines. The result?? The rear once again travels faster than the front, and compresses the train, derailing you.. Third scenario. Same as the first, only now you have engines front rear and in the middle. better, only now theres thirty cars between engines, still too much for being able to take that grade..
The solution may be to place a couple engines every fifteen cars; distributing the power as evenly as possible throughout the entire consist. I dont know really though. I'll find out tomorrow..
heheh.. and going "up" that hill is the easy part..
If I can figure out the solution to this, I'm interested in releasing it in a few months ( theres a lot of work and rework to be done ), so I figure i'll backup my main railworks folder to another drive, then delete everything thats not public domain. Its enough of a challenge to make it worthwhile, and its going to be big enough to keep someone occupied for days on end..

[PamBrooker]

ok, so what i did was to put an engine every ten cars, creating six little trains all linked together.. All this did was to confirm my suspicions.. The way distributed power is emplemented in RW3, makes no allowance for a governor. Its done so that if you increase power at the throttle, then power is increased evenly across all the engines.
In a real train, each engine is constantly polling the other engines and the computers on the individual engines adjust the throttle accordingly to maintain a consistent speed across the entire train. That aint happenin here..
it should be a simple matter to create a routine in each engine that watchdogs the speed and poiwer settings of the lead engine, and compares that to its own speed and power settings, then increase or decrease the throttle as needed.. its not rocket science.. A- B =C. Please RSC, do tell me that your not going to let a sixty one year old yankee broad with an eighth grade education out think you on this.. Really.. :(..

[arizonachris]

Pam, do you have KCJones' Buckeye couplers mod installed? It does away with the coupler stretch, which is a big cause of consist tilt and derailments. I wish RSC would fix that, or just use Dicky Jim's couplers.

[PamBrooker]

Pam, do you have KCJones' Buckeye couplers mod installed? It does away with the coupler stretch, which is a big cause of consist tilt and derailments. I wish RSC would fix that, or just use Dicky Jim's couplers.

Yup, got em yesterday. They work great..
I was pretty thourough in my testing lasrt night. its not just the couplers that are giving people grief.. I'm quite positive they cludged the power distribution stuff too..
My solution to keep from tossing the route, your work and Hawks sign he made for me, is to run a Shay powered excursion train up to snowline village from what ive been using as a MOW siding. i just need to run a circuit from the village around and down and add in a station..

[up_8677]

ok, so what i did was to put an engine every ten cars, creating six little trains all linked together.. All this did was to confirm my suspicions.. The way distributed power is emplemented in RW3, makes no allowance for a governor. Its done so that if you increase power at the throttle, then power is increased evenly across all the engines.
In a real train, each engine is constantly polling the other engines and the computers on the individual engines adjust the throttle accordingly to maintain a consistent speed across the entire train. That aint happenin here..
it should be a simple matter to create a routine in each engine that watchdogs the speed and poiwer settings of the lead engine, and compares that to its own speed and power settings, then increase or decrease the throttle as needed.. its not rocket science.. A- B =C. Please RSC, do tell me that your not going to let a sixty one year old yankee broad with an eighth grade education out think you on this.. Really.. :(..

I feel your pain! No matter what you do too, slack action is poorly modeled too. In a real train, starting is accomplished by starting one thing moving (the locomotive) and then its kinetic energy gets transferred to the first car, and so on and so forth. Its funny to watch a long train with no DPUs from the fly cams; almost as soon as the front starts moving the back does too!

[SargNickFury]

I'm wondering is this is my issue I was at first blaming train model...but really Unsure now. I have been running the Abdula V2 line route (best free route, and maybe best overall route I have played, just stunning) However just past Morteratsch it starts a 7% grade and near pin curves....which has cause some pretty hilarious physics moments, and in general massive derailment even on short 4-5 car trains.

The Engine I like to use is the Austrian ÖBB 1189 by Eisenbahnwerk they did several of the trains I think included as base trains in Railworks, and it is very well done. It also comes with some old school coaches that are fairly historically accurate for this line, and more importantly they are nice and short for sharp turns. The ÖBB 1189 is a three segment engine to simulate the slight articulation of the "Crocodile" style steeplecab locomotive. Usually this thing takes sharp turns very well....when it's flat. What's really odd is even if I get past this sharp curve by going down t like 8kmh there's just slight turns further up the route with lower grades where I can not stop it from just poppining off tracks....even at low speeds they sometime launch entire train into orbit. i have seen rear car launch over my cab in whiplash like effect. I am not sure if this is any deffect to design of the train and passenger cars that come with this download, (they work all other routes just fine but those are usually not so curvy or steep.) Or if it's an error to the track rules, or something with map/route. Etc....

I got that coupler Type E download but wondering if it will even effect this stock as it looked to be for American stock? Any thoughts or help would be appreciateive This is just the most fun route to run for fun....and I'd really like to see if I can fix this issue. I will try and make some videos of derailments.....

This is first video I made before crash, the first half of the route runs without issue.
http://youtu.be/4qG0031ic8s

[SargNickFury]

This is issue I am having It happens with other trains as well. I am just surprised to have issue with this one and these cars as they should be able to take turns better and have done so on other turns. Unsure if this is train model or map issue...is there anything I can do to modify route?

http://youtu.be/5V02tjJv36k

From Thusis to Morteratsch I have no issues the pin curve following it I do, but I sort of expected it with such a tight turn at a 7% grade, but this turn is no very steep or very tight. I am speeding slightly over the stations 35 kmh but i did so the jump of cars would be noticable, it happens even at 18kmh just hard to see where it derails at that speed.

Anyone else having issues? Which trains do best? I know nothing about making a route but when I open up the editor I do notice there is a end of a track segment just before that. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I love this route, and I love this alpine train......just wish I could figure out how to keep going, if you saw my other video everythings works fine rest of way.