Why no CSX family products?

[CSX2057]

That sucks! I uploaded Chessie System Big Boy on here and next thing I had to take it off! Im doing something else I'm naming Chessea System until railworks will will get the license then I'll return the real chessie system.

[arizonachris]

I've seen other modelers just have to call CSX and they get permission for free? Those posts were months ago. I know someone else just got permission from CSX. (not sure who, tho) Did they actually contact you?

[Toripony]

!*not-ok*! That sucks! I uploaded Chessie System Big Boy on here and next thing I had to take it off! Im doing something else I'm naming Chessea System until railworks will will get the license then I'll return the real chessie system.

I don't understand this post... why did you have to take it down?

[thecanadianrail]

I've seen other modelers just have to call CSX and they get permission for free? Those posts were months ago. I know someone else just got permission from CSX. (not sure who, tho) Did they actually contact you?

it's the fact that RS.com would be making a "profit" by using their name. or something like that to make things complicated and big which is hard to understand why they make it that hard.

[ATSF3814]

Ok this leaves me with several questions:

We have many CSX family repaints here at RWA and looking over the readmes for all of them, I see no mention of these repaints being licensed by CSX. Wouldn't they have to mention that if they were?

Tori you seem confused about all of this. It leaves me wondering did you or Rick have to contact CSX before releasing the C&O Kanawha repaint?

I'm no expert but I know there are exceptions to the copyright and trademark laws (like fair use) so wouldn't the freeware repaints fall under one of those exceptions?

[Toripony]

Tori you seem confused about all of this. It leaves me wondering did you or Rick have to contact CSX before releasing the C&O Kanawha repaint?

No, we didn't. And I didn't think anyone making free repaints need to worry about this stuff. That's why I'm confused with these last few posts. My original post was directed at "Official RSC DLC" only. RSC DOES have to worry about licenses... because they're selling products with copy protected markings for profit.

If I want to put a CSX logo on my mailbox, my barn, my car, or a virtual railroad car nobody would care unless I sold them.

"Copyright infringement" is a non-issue unless used derogatorily or commercially, which inflicts "Damage" to the copyright owner. No lawyer or court cares unless there is clear identifiable "Damage". Freeware doesn't damage any one, unless the company somehow saw it as derogatory presentation.... only then are they going to ask their $1,000/hr lawyers to check into it.

[ATSF3814]

No, we didn't. And I didn't think anyone making free repaints need to worry about this stuff. That's why I'm confused with these last few posts. My original post was directed at "Official RSC DLC" only. RSC DOES have to worry about licenses... because they're selling products with copy protected markings for profit.

If I want to put a CSX logo on my mailbox, my barn, my car, or a virtual railroad car nobody would care unless I sold them.

"Copyright infringement" is a non-issue unless used derogatorily or commercially, which inflicts "Damage" to the copyright owner. No lawyer or court cares unless there is clear identifiable "Damage". Freeware doesn't damage any one, unless the company somehow saw it as derogatory presentation.... only then are they going to ask their $1,000/hr lawyers to check into it.

That's exactly what I thought. I don't make any money with my repaints and I take care to make sure that they look as professional as possible with the tools that I have. I'm not doing anything to "damage" their image so they should have no reason to complain.

[CSX2057]

Okay I read these post and here's and question and I better have a good answer ;)

My first project repaint is the chessie system big boy. My question is this....will csx say anything about using their logos? My repaints are free!

If its okay ill notify hawk to reupload my big boy.

Edit

Never mind im uploading first week of August.

[Chock]

There is a difference. In the most basic sense of things, it boils down to who benefits the most

Railworks with CSX liveries: Railworks wins 100%.. The chances of someone seeing a CSX engine in Railworks and then calling them up to ship freight because of that is zero. This is a case where CSX usage is purely benefiting another companies sales potential with zero potential out of it for CSX themselves, hence they want cash in return for the use.

This is not exactly true. The advent of the Internet and in particular the way search engines work, means that even unrelated websites which mention a company name actually will help them become more well known. Here's how that works...

With more rail sim and scale model companies modeling CSX locomotives and rolling stock, and more companies selling that stuff online, there would obviously be more mentions of CSX in relation to railways and freight on the web, despite these being for model-related websites. But model or not, this nevertheless means that a search for 'freight and railway' in Google or some other search engine would in fact turn up the name CSX as being more relevant for any search made on the words railway and freight as far as web hits goes. This is because there would be more metatags for CSX on more websites to do with railways. Since it is the metatag alone, and not its grammatical context, which search engines use as their criteria to rate relevancy, it would in fact benefit CSX in terms of being rated as relevant if someone was searching for 'a freight rail company' by virtue of CSX being mentioned more times on the web in relation to those words. In fact, because of the way that works, this thread itself will have helped them a tiny bit, since it adds to the number of mentions they get on the web in relation to rail and freight. So in some sense where search engines are concerned, there is no such thing as bad publicity when trying to get your name known.

If someone explained how this aspect of search engine optimisation actually worked to the CSX marketing department properly, they would realise that it would benefit them in ways other than mere corporate identity to have their logo and name thrown around on the web. Then they'd realise they were missing out on the effects of what in the wider sense is a well known tool used by web-savvy companies, called 'viral marketing'.

Look at the reverse of this short-sighted policy by a CEO who does know how this all works and knows how to use it - Michael O'Leary of budget airline, Ryanair. O'Leary regularly makes outrageous statements about cost-cutting deliberately to get mentions on web forums and in the press at large; he'd probably turn up to the opening of an envelope if he thought it would get him some press coverage. He knows that every mention of his airline adds to how much it shows up on the web. So when someone searches for 'cheap flights' on the web, guess who shows up in Google. This is why Ryanair have gone from being a poxy cheap small airline that used to fly clapped out second-hand 737s, to being one of the most well-known and largest airlines in the world who are in fact now one of Boeing's biggest customers for new-build aircraft in spite of spending very little on traditional marketing.

Al

[Toripony]

That is fascinating about O'Leary and Ryanair! Well, at least it is to someone with a mind for business. And I agree every bit with the search engine promotional power. I just hadn't taken the idea so far as using bad Internet news for profit. Not a new concept there, but applying it to the I'net has incredible potential.

I would like to add that not all promotion is designed to work "directly". "A Company's Good Name" is always an important thing. To most anyone that grew up in my generation, if I said "Name a long-distance phone company?", they would reply AT&T. To most American's if you said, "Name a railroad?", they would reply Union Pacific.

How does this impact their bottom line, you ask? Familiarity. We will always trust the Kleenex brand over any other brand of tissues. Why? Familiarity with the name. Geico's entire business has been built on advertising. They don't offer anything that any other insurance company doesn't offer, so their ad angle has been to put that name on the airwaves SO much that it gets embedded in people's minds. Just like State Farm and Mutual of Omaha is buried in mine (thanks to my father and to the Wild Kingdom television show).

Any advertising is good advertising.

[Leaf85]

Found this quite an interesting topic, so now I'm curious as to this being the reason Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) is not in game, as opposed to Canadian National?