Objective View of RSC and other train simulators

[craigk]

I was just reading the commentary posted by Buzz and found it to my liking. I just want to add a thought on the point of this simulator being realistic. Let me start by saying I am a real world engineer working in the past for I&M Rail-Link (clerk and trainman), Illinois Central...to become Canadian National (trainman, yardmaster, engineer) and now as I close in on retirement I work for a small but very neat little shortline called the IANR (Iowa Northern Railway).

No simulator and I mean NO simulator can give you what an engineer needs the most and that is the feel it in the "seat of your pants" sensation. I have trained on some of the most sophisticated railroad simulators and none give you that "seat of your pants" vibration, tugging, feeling the stretch of your train and yes that tug that tells you something has gone wrong behind you.

Now I started with MSTS at its inception. I played it alot and it was the best at the time that one could get. It improved vastly over the years and I, up until the last couple of years kept it around. I was involved with Trainz and a great group of guys who I enjoyed creating routes with at Trainz Pro Routes. Trainz was alright, but it was the guys who made it fun.

Then Rich Garber and I were talking one day and he told me about RSC and how you could make routes that were more realistic and easier to make than in MSTS. I tried it and frankly this one is the best by a long shot overall the other railroad simulators for its graphics and ballpark realism. Okay Run 8 probably has better train handling characteristics when it comes to the physics of a real train. But who wants to drive a train through some of the most boring scenery in the world. I mean if thats your thing then Run 8 is for you. I drive locomotives from the latest and greatest to ones that started out on the Southern Pacific and the L&N to the Milwaukee Road. Its a great job but when I come home I don't need all of that realism of train physics. RSC is fairly realistic in train physics, beautiful looking rolling stock, sounds that for the most part simulate the real thing and gorgeous scenery. For my money and my likes RSC is the one for me hands down. As I review the forum comments and the like everyday, I also find it is you my friends that make this simulator the best.

As Buzz commented and I back him up in thanking all of the creators who do this because they enjoy creating and generously giving so that we all can enjoy the wonderful world of railroading in all its different aspects.

My hat is off to all of you.
Thank you
Craigk

[Bananarama]

Nicely put, Craig.

[buzz456]

Thanks for the thoughts Craig. I don't want to highjack this thing but I dumped the new SD45 on the front of that 100 car coal train on the C&O this morning and after about three minutes of still under 2 mph with four units and a lot of wheel slip I surrendered and added two more on the back. Then we got going in a reasonable period. Seems pretty real from the UP coal trains that go by me every day.

[up_8677]

Interesting to read the thoughts of someone who is rails in real life.

Railworks/TS2013 clearly has amazing graphics and tons of even better community assets (and an incredibly supportive and friendly community, at least around here ) to allow you do do almost anything you want. The newer routes (especially Sherman Hill) are great. Though I haven't been in TS2013 for a few months, I understand that strides have been made in physics/train handling based on what I've read here. After the upcoming update I definitely plan to check it out again.

That said, I have found myself greatly enjoying Run8. Despite the obvious lack of graphics, as someone who is a mere foamer, I really enjoy being able to operate trains as closely to the prototype as possible. Getting some 13,000 tons of grain up the Mojave Sub with less than 3 HP/ton without breaking in two is a real challenge, and that is what I enjoy the most. Sure, it isn't as visceral as sitting behind a real throttle, but it's probably the best I'll ever be able to do.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Interesting to read the thoughts of someone who is rails in real life.

Railworks/TS2013 clearly has amazing graphics and tons of even better community assets (and an incredibly supportive and friendly community, at least around here ) to allow you do do almost anything you want. The newer routes (especially Sherman Hill) are great. Though I haven't been in TS2013 for a few months, I understand that strides have been made in physics/train handling based on what I've read here. After the upcoming update I definitely plan to check it out again.

That said, I have found myself greatly enjoying Run8. Despite the obvious lack of graphics, as someone who is a mere foamer, I really enjoy being able to operate trains as closely to the prototype as possible. Getting some 13,000 tons of grain up the Mojave Sub with less than 3 HP/ton without breaking in two is a real challenge, and that is what I enjoy the most. Sure, it isn't as visceral as sitting behind a real throttle, but it's probably the best I'll ever be able to do.

I also enjoy Run8 for exactly the same reasons.

My take on this is that is very difficult for the Run8 team to achieve the level of "eye candy" TS 2013 users have grown accustomed to, while it is much easier for RSC to achieve the level of realism in train handling that Run8 offers. Or at least make it available as an option, it can't be that hard to program.

While I enjoy the physics and train handling in Run8, there are downsides to their choices of realism. You'll have to realistically walk your train to couple/uncouple, attach an EOT, or the whole yard to throw a switch and back to your cab and out again to reline that switch. That could easily take an hour and is no fun to do yourself often in your shift or watch somebody's avatar do from you cab while you sit under a red signal waiting for dispatcher's orders.

I follow the developments of ORTS also with close interest. Trainz doesn't seem to make progress compared to TS2013, Run8 or ORTS. Heck, even MSTS is still being actively developed here and there.

[buzz456]

Not to be confrontational but "Getting some 13,000 tons of grain up the Mojave Sub with less than 3 HP/ton without breaking in two is a real challenge, and that is what I enjoy the most.". After that then what?

I'm into immersion. Rail Simulator wins that hands down.

[up_8677]

Getting the train down the other side of the hill without it running away, of course! And doing it again and getting better at train handling.

[buzz456]

I do that also in Rail Simulator. It's fun.....and I get great scenery and sounds to boot.

[up_8677]

I wish I could have the graphics and customizeable/extensible assets of RW with the realistic train physics of Run8. That is something I would buy in a heartbeat. I honestly think both simulators have their place and neither is really "better" than the other in any way. They have simply somewhat different focuses and one (at this time) appeals to my interests more.

[artimrj]

I'll agree with that, they have completely different focuses.

[buzz456]

I wish I could have the graphics and customizeable/extensible assets of RW with the realistic train physics of Run8. That is something I would buy in a heartbeat. I honestly think both simulators have their place and neither is really "better" than the other in any way. They have simply somewhat different focuses and one (at this time) appeals to my interests more.

Why are you here then?

[thecanadianrail]

RW is completely capable of the realisms in physics that are in run8, look at the Marias pass add-on and how close they got to the real thing in how you had the real feeling of weight and proper brakes with working dynamics. RW hands down for me although I run run8 once in a while just for the multiplayer that RW doesn't have.

[Bananarama]

Why are you here then?

That's a bit harsh. I see nothing in the post to indicate a preference for one sim over another.

[buzz456]

Why are you here then?

That's a bit harsh. I see nothing in the post to indicate a preference for one sim over another.

Since I know he's not here most of the time that means he's over on brand x. That's why I asked the question. I didn't mean anything by it other than what the question asks.

[up_8677]

Because I'm interested to see what happens with the upcoming update.