Amtrak Licensing

[SithMurcielago]

I was reading a similar topic regarding CSX. So I felt in the mood for a round table discussion which I like on this forum.

Topic:

Getting License from the Largest Passenger Railroad in America. IS harder than most people think or is something else at work?

To start off with regarding Railworks it is taking a good long while for RSC to get a license from Amtrak. Is amtrak treating model railroads differently from simulator games? It might be just timing!

[Chessie8638]

Amtrak doesn't care about it's logo use as long as it's under that "fair use" mumbo jumbo. Nothing says *used with license on any Amtrak model's box.

For example this is the only mention of railroad trademarks anywhere on the Athearn site:

The Union Pacific mark and other marks owned by Union Pacific are made under trademark license from Union Pacific Railroad Company.

Also on Atlas' site:

Products bearing American Refrigerator Transit; Chicago & Eastern Illinois (C&EI); Chicago and North Western Railway Company (CNW); The Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Company (D&RGW); Katy; Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad Company (MKT); Missouri Pacific (MP); Pacific Fruit Express (PFE); Southern Pacific (SP); St. Louis Southwestern Railway Company (SSW); Cotton Belt; Texas & Pacific (T&P); Union Pacific (UP); Union Pacific Fruit Express (UPFE); Western Pacific (WP) marks are made under trademark license from Union Pacific Railroad Company.

This is why I hate modeling the SP and DRGW. Everything cost's about $5 USD more then the same product with a different name and paint job...

I should have said in the privacy policy itself. On certain model pages it will have * CSX Licensed Product..

As for treating them differently. Probably yes. Model companies have had years of steady sales and rep. Mean while a relatively new start up company in a unknown market wants use of the logo's..

[SithMurcielago]

Are u sure about that? Last I heard you had to have a license to use Amtrak's Logo and from that it is very hard to get one. Here is why:

The trademarks, logos, and service marks displayed on the Site (collectively the “Trademarks”) are the registered and unregistered trademarks of Amtrak, Amtrak’s licensors and suppliers, and others. The Trademarks owned by Amtrak, whether registered or unregistered, may not be used in connection with any product or service that is not Amtrak’s,

Right out the mouth of the beast.

Some small time businesses may get away with selling products with the use of Amtrak's Name (Its a huge risk), there is a small chance that an employee of Amtrak may catch it and report it. You have those kind of people out there, but for a business like RSC who has gotten National attention it is impossible to do it without being notice. So the question is, Is Amtrak only handing out license to a few individual businesses if its to there advantage? With the current state of the economy and with Amtrak's claim of being broke they may be looking for a way to gain something in these harsh times.

[hughes407]

Does this issue affect payware developers only or do freeware re-painters also need to be concerned?

Don

[buzz456]

Freeware people should have no concern. There is no gain for them therefore there is no loss to the party who's logo is being used. No loss no damage.

[arizonachris]

I still think it's stupid to charge for someone putting a name on the side of a loco or rolling stock. It's free advertising. The exception of course would be payware, as has already been said.

[buzz456]

Stupid is as stupid does..
Buzz

[hughes407]

Seems to me a solution would be for the payware developer to put out the rolling stock in the logo of some company who isn't so hard to work with. Pretty soon, one or more of our excellent painters will get around to putting the Amtrak logo and colors on the cars and locomotives.

Don

[SithMurcielago]

I have a question, You can sell a product without the logo, but with a paint scheme that isn't yours. Is that still breaching the trademark law?

[buzz456]

No.
Buzz

[micaelcorleone]

I have a question, You can sell a product without the logo, but with a paint scheme that isn't yours. Is that still breaching the trademark law?

Yes it is. At least in some cases. Designs can also be a copyright.
You can search for trademarks here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4004:s30rkh.1.1

[buzz456]

Again I would like to repeat no loss no damage no claim.
Buzz