The new Pacific Surfliner Amtrak EMD F59PHI locomotives

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

What are your opinions on the new Amtrak California F59PHI locomotives?
I think they are well made, sharp looking, but have a few sharp edges in their handling.

Are they correctly set up regarding power and brake?
Sounds and visions, i.e. lights, ditchlights, horns, bells and whistles?
Cab controls and instrumentation? Do these locomotives have ATS or even ATC since they run at over 79 MpH?

I find the braking very aggressive at even small reductions of pressure and release quite slow. The maximum brake cylinder pressure of 65 psi is reached way too early.
Online info suggest the units have 'blended braking' and can slow down at 2 MpH/s from 70 MpH using dynamics with air combined. I don't think this feature is implemented, but at higher "negative traction" positions, the retardation is quite strong, so perhaps it is simulated this way?
I have only found a 36 pages F59PHI locomotive engineer's handbook on line, unfortunately that doesn't provide me with enough information for the most important section on the (air) brakes is missing. Inportant question for me is wether the train brake allows for graduated release, important if you want to make smooth and precise station stops. Online info from other roads suggest a 26LU-L brake formula and since the cars report their brakes' released status back to the control desk, some form of electric propagation might be used.

The first small error I have found: the EQ reservoir gauge needle seems stuck at 160 psi. The red needle in the left pressure gauge, the gauges' needles should also be clearly labelled. The F5 HUD shows the correct EQ pressure, and I don't think it is a broken animation as the Control List Dialog window also shows 160 psi, so perhaps the error is in the enginescript?
Some of the newest German and British loco's have sensible text instead of %% displayed over their HUD controls. Will look that code over and try to apply it to the F59PHI.
One of my gripes with the RSC implementation of air brakes is that the brake cylinder gauge is hooked to the train brake pressure control value, while it should be the locomotive's so you can see when the independent brake is applied while the train brakes are released (and vice versa once bailing off is implemented).
The front and rear headlights should be properly hooked to their desktop swiches, and be dimmable.

[jmslakings]

What are your opinions on the new Amtrak California F59PHI locomotives?

Don't know. I haven't seen the F59HI in Amtrak California scheme, only in Surfliner scheme.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

What are your opinions on the new Amtrak California F59PHI locomotives?

Don't know. I haven't seen the F59HI in Amtrak California scheme, only in Surfliner scheme.

Are they different entities, Amtrak California and Surfliner? From wikipedia I learned the F59PHI is quite common in the US and CAN with commuter transport authorities.
The loco and cars would therefor make good repainting candidates. In a Metrolink scheme they can call at San Bernardino even.

[arizonachris]

Here's something about Metrolink (quoted from their website) :

"Metrolink is governed by the Southern California Regional Rail Authority (SCRRA), a joint powers authority that was formed in 1991 and comprises five county agencies that were tasked with reducing highway congestion and improving mobility throughout Southern California: Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Metro), Orange County Transportation Authority, Riverside County Transportation Commission, San Bernardino Associated Governments and Ventura County Transportation Commission. SCRRA created Metrolink in October 1992 to fill a void in Southern California’s transportation infrastructure. Our organization has served as the link between six Southern California counties by providing commuters seamless transportation connectivity options. Metrolink has grown tremendously during our 20 years in service, expanding from three service lines, 11 stations and 2,300 daily boardings to seven service lines, 55 stations and 44,000 daily boardings, all over a 512 route-mile network.

Amtrak, one of our major contractors, supplies the train and engine crews who operate our trains. Amtrak was a Metrolink contractor since our 1992 inception until 2005 when we awarded a contract to Connex."

Now, from what I read, Surfliner is simply a brand name that Amtrak uses for that train/ route. Like Sunset Limited or Cascades or Chief. Just a cute name, it's all Amtrak.

Oh, and, both needles in the left hand pressure gauge, for me, are stuck. They never move. Right hand gauge operates way different depending on Expert or Simple controls.

[buzz456]

I have mine on expert mode and all of the gauges are working in both the locomotive and the cab car. I'm not sure about the comment on labeling. One says main reservoir and the other one says brake cylinder. That's seems clear enough for me.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I have mine on expert mode and all of the gauges are working in both the locomotive and the cab car. I'm not sure about the comment on labeling. One says main reservoir and the other one says brake cylinder. That's seems clear enough for me.

Then tell us, Buzz, what are the red and white needles for?

[buzz456]

Main Reservoir
This is the red pointer on the left gauge. It represents the pressure in two large
reservoirs. These reservoirs supply all air-operated devices on the locomotive unit. All
air for the locomotive unit is furnished by an air compressor. This compressor will
unload by a pressure switch. It is usually set to unload when the main reservoir
pressure reaches 140 pounds and load again when main reservoir pressure drops to
125-128 pounds. Once the main reservoir system is charged, it will fluctuate between
125 and 140 pounds. Should the unloading switch fail to operate, there is a safety valve
set to pop off at 150 pounds to relieve the pressure.
In charging the main reservoir system, any time the pressure is less than 15 pounds
above regulating valve setting, it would be advisable to center the reverser of the
locomotive, open the generator field switch, and speed the engine up to an intermediate
throttle position to make the air compressor supply air faster on some locomotives. You
should continue this operation until the main reservoir pressure is 15 pounds higher
than regulating valve setting. It is a waste of fuel to continue revving the engine if main
reservoir is 15 pounds higher than regulating valve setting. On some EMD locomotives
the engine speed will automatically go to No. 2 or No. 3 throttle anytime the main
reservoir pressure drops below 120 pounds. On GE Dash 8 and Dash 9 locomotives
advancing the throttle to number 1 will give maximum air compressor speed. Any
further advancement of the throttle will cause the air compressor speed to decrease.
Equalizing Reservoir
This is the white pointer on the left gauge. It represents the amount of air in a 220 cubic
inch (approximately three quarts) reservoir and a small volume of air on the relay valve
of the automatic brake valve.
The function of this reservoir is to control the amount of brake pipe reduction. For
instance, if we were going to make an automatic brake application of 15 pounds, we
would move the automatic brake handle and cause the equalizing reservoir to reduce
15 pounds. This would only take a couple of seconds as a very small volume of air is
exhausted. The brake pipe air would reduce to this value. The volume of air in the
brake pipe is very large (330 gallons) on a 100-car train, and it would take 15-30
seconds for this volume to exhaust and would be very difficult to measure.
So, we use equalizing reservoir gauge in making all service brake applications because
the brake pipe is controlled by the equalizing reservoir. If we lower the equalizing
reservoir, the brake pipe will reduce accordingly. If we raise the equalizing reservoir,
the brake pipe will raise accordingly.
AB-38
The only instance when the equalizing reservoir does not control or lead the brake pipe
is during an emergency brake application or when the brake valve cut-off valve (Double
Heading **) is cut out.
If the emergency brake application was caused by moving the automatic brake valve to
the emergency position, the brake pipe would reduce to zero immediately; and the
equalizing reservoir would follow at a much slower rate. The equalizing reservoir would
take approximately 15 seconds to reduce to zero.
If the emergency brake application was caused by a train separation or burst air hose,
or other unknown reason, the brake pipe would immediately reduce to zero; but the
equalizing reservoir would not be affected.
Brake Pipe
This is the white pointer on the middle or right gauge. It measures the amount of brake
pipe pressure at the automatic brake valve on the lead unit. It does not necessarily
measure the brake pipe pressure on an intermediate or rear car of a train.
Although the brake valve will attempt to supply an equal pressure throughout the train,
resistance to air flow in the brake pipe would cause this gauge to show full pressure
long before this same pressure is obtained on cars farther back in the train and may
never reach this same value on the rear of the train.
This difference in pressure on the locomotive or head end of the train and the rear is
referred to as brake pipe gradient and should not exceed 15 pounds.
Locomotive Brake Cylinder
This is the red pointer on the middle or right gauge. It represents any pressure in the
brake cylinder, on that unit regardless of how it is applied.
The brakes on the locomotive will apply two ways. Any time the brake pipe pressure is
reduced, or is reducing, the locomotive brakes will apply. This pressure will show on
the brake cylinder gauge. The locomotive brakes will also apply any time the
independent brake is placed in the applied position. This pressure would also register
on the brake cylinder gauge.

[artimrj]

Yeah I am going to read all of that.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Main Reservoir
This is the red pointer on the left gauge ...
.... snip snip ....
This pressure would also register on the brake cylinder gauge.

Textbook answers, well done!
Understanding this, you know what small errors are made in the locomotive model.

[buzz456]

Like this?

cab.jpg

[JohnTrainHead]

Excellent sounds on both the locomotive and cab-car. Even better - the K5LA can be quilled with the "N" key! Great work, Woody!

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

On all prototype control stand photos and locomotive engineer handbook illustrations the gauges' pointers are labelled with their functions.
Some of the commercial or freeware DLC have the model gauges also correctly labelled, this F59PHI unfortunately doesn't.

What interests me is the equalizing reservoir pressure gauge needle. Yours seems to be pointing at around 110 PSI which is correct when the train brakes are released. Mine and others are stuck at 160 PSI. I have Steam installed on two computers and one laptop, I cannot understand they all seem to have a stuck pointer.
Time for yet another Verify Integrity, since I got my Surfliner quite early? Even though the whole route comes in one .ap asset pack, individual files might still be broken I assume.

Buzz, can you post another screen shot with the train brakes in Minimum Service position, i.e. the train brake handle at around 15 %?

Perhaps you have the normal brake cylinder pressure with a minimum reduction as well?

F59PHI.jpg

Solved! It is in the three part F59PHI career scenario! When I created a free roam, the eq gauge became unstuck!
Also the brake cylinder pressure behaves like it should from the minimum service application right through the full service application.
, Buzz, your screenshot without any scenery gave me the clue.

[mrgreen]

I've too have noticed that the brakes seem to act a bit weird. For me, if I apply the brakes on the F59PHI, they go to full service even with as little as 2% brake applied. There is no range of pressures, just released and full service. On the driving trailer it's a little better: minimum service is 18psi (brake cylinder) or so, is this prototypical?

I read somewhere that on American passenger trains the operating pressure 110psi, maximum brake cylinder pressure is 79psi and that is achieved with a 32psi reduction, but maybe that doesn't apply to the Surfliner cars. I also read that locomotives that have 26L airbrakes or modern pneumatic brakes can have the cutout valve placed in Cutout Pass or Freight, where Pass allows for graduated release. I would think the F59PHI has graduated release.

Also, does anyone know the brakeforce of the F59PHI's dynamic brakes?

EDIT: Kanawha, how did you solve it?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I've too have noticed that the brakes seem to act a bit weird. For me, if I apply the brakes on the F59PHI, they go to full service even with as little as 2% brake applied. There is no range of pressures, just released and full service. On the driving trailer it's a little better: minimum service is 18psi (brake cylinder) or so, is this prototypical?

I read somewhere that on American passenger trains the operating pressure 110psi, maximum brake cylinder pressure is 79psi and that is achieved with a 32psi reduction, but maybe that doesn't apply to the Surfliner cars. I also read that locomotives that have 26L airbrakes or modern pneumatic brakes can have the cutout valve placed in Cutout Pass or Freight, where Pass allows for graduated release. I would think the F59PHI has graduated release.

Also, does anyone know the brakeforce of the F59PHI's dynamic brakes?

Try a F59PHI in a free roam scenario of your own and see if the brakes become unstuck.

Very interesting questions, Mr. Green. I am searching for the same answers. There is some information on both the CalDOT locos and cars available online, but not much.
I only have a small 36 page section from the F59PHI manual, without detailed info on the brakes. Another F59PH manual from Canada explains the "blended dynamic brakes".
I too want to know if the F59PHI's run in passenger mode with graduated release
I have just found a 2010 CalDOT "Standardized Technical Specification on Bi-Level Passenger Rail Cars for Intercity Corridor Service", that has info on the brakes.
It specifies both disc and thread brakes, a required minimum retardation and conventional type 26C brake valves. No electric propagation for simultaneous apply and release, though it mentions "direct release mode of automatic brake valve operation". And there is a "brakes stuck" indicator of some sort on the dashboard.
There should be a three colour indication light on the side of the cars, much like the Superliners. The lights housing is modeled, but there are no lights.

With some clever scripting, much more operational value and realism could be had from these trains. But only for hardcore simmers, not for the game console players.

[buzz456]

Mr. Green, It seems the dynamic brakes are pretty ineffectual on the F59PHI. I am running with a F40 right now. We shall see how it does on the hills in a bit.