RSC 2-8-0 CONSOLIDATION

[XDriver]

Is there anyway to change, (maybe in the engine script), the ideal fire mass to your prescribed 650 lbs. at startup instead of the 400 lbs. give or take? Just curious.
I like all this Xtra tinkering you've been doin. I've been running the crap outta this little devil lately!

[mrennie]

Is there anyway to change, (maybe in the engine script), the ideal fire mass to your prescribed 650 lbs. at startup instead of the 400 lbs. give or take? Just curious.
I like all this Xtra tinkering you've been doin. I've been running the crap outta this little devil lately!

Actually, it used to be set at just under 650lbs at startup, but there was a problem with that - within less than a minute, especially with the HUD and the stupid auto-fireman, the safeties would lift and make their usual loud noise. If you happened to be doing a switching scenario, there wasn't much opportunity to run at speed and get the boiler pressure down. I saw that when I was watching Matt P on his TwitchTV stream playing a couple of Workshop scenarios - he's was cursing (well, politely of course) the deafening sound of the safeties. I didn't want to lower the volume of the safeties, because they're meant to be loud (to discourage the crew from wasting steam and water). So instead, I realised that it's better to start with a lower fire mass, enough to keep the boiler pressure steady at under 200psi, so that you can do those switching scenarios without the safeties lifting, but if you're going to do a proper run, all you have to do is open the blower, open the damper and get shovelling You have to be conservative with the steam at first, until the fire builds up, but to me that makes it feel all the more realistic, challenging and fun. It makes you think about the fire, instead of assuming that it's all optimum right at the start.

I did a final little tweak to the grey smoke, because I realised I'd suppressed the shadows in the lower part of the billowing smoke trail and provoked a curious optical illusion that made it look like the smoke would suddenly switch direction by 180 degrees

2015-10-13_00002.jpg

Glad to hear you like the improvements.

By the way, to understand the new brakes, you really need the updated manual (which I forgot to include). I sent it to Bob but if anyone needs it sooner than the weekend, pm me and I'll send over a copy of the pdf (it's only 736 KB).

[mrennie]

That last screen shot looks great. I found a video on YouTube on the Real V&T Scenic Railway running an Consolidation. I think your last tweak from the screen shots looks really good. They don't use coal in there Consolidation they use oil I think you have it down good to me. But this is just what I think.

Thanks David, those two photos do reassure me that I've got it as close as it's possible to get it in the current TS. I reckon I'll call it a wrap on the smoke

[tomgiorgini]

i thought i had a problem with the brakes hanging but when i read today about the overcharge i put the handel to the rear and it ran great wish you would have mentioned this earlier i'v been going nuts the last week trying to get this figured out. the only prob i have is the blow offs never reset.and i loved the black smoke.i just did the hill no problem. thanks for making this great model even better.i wish dtg would have half your work ethic

[mrennie]

i thought i had a problem with the brakes hanging but when i read today about the overcharge i put the handel to the rear and it ran great wish you would have mentioned this earlier i'v been going nuts the last week trying to get this figured out. the only prob i have is the blow offs never reset.and i loved the black smoke.i just did the hill no problem. thanks for making this great model even better.i wish dtg would have half your work ethic

It's a pity I forgot to put in the right version of the manual

I've added the pop-up message to warn when the overcharge happens - hopefully that'll avoid problems. I'll do the same in the FEF-3 update.

To get the blow offs to reset, you have to lower the boiler pressure. There are various ways to do that - increase the back pressure, close the damper, use the live injector, or let the fire mass drop, or any combination. I usually top up the boiler, using the live injector, and that's enough to get the safeties to seat. It's not usually a problem anyway, as I try to run the boiler at around 195psi most of the time. When I'm doing switching, I keep the fire mass below the ideal level (less coal showing in the heel at the front of the firebox).

As for DTG, one thing you have to understand is that, like all sensible businesses, they have to make a profit and can't afford the luxury of spending as much time as I do on free updates (the fact that they do provide some free updates anyway is something that they don't get enough credit or thanks for). Come to think of it, there's no way they could spend as much time as I do on developing a loco in the first place (the Connie was about 12 months from start to the initial release, and the FEF-3 was nearly two years). If they did, they'd go out of business. Actually, I can't really afford to either, but that's another story. As I said, for me it's a labour of love. If I had to make a living from it, they'd never have been made.

[jalsina]

I have an extra story that finished 30 minutes ago. A bad one!
I set a consist with the QD Custom consist editor to drive again along the Horseshoe uphill route from Altoona to Gallitzin.
I set a quite heavy consist with two headers and an AI helper at the rear. In total near 1200 ton.

2015-10-12_00044.jpg

The run was difficult with speeds that went between 5 and 12 mph in 1.8-1.9% grades. I watched the mass and I controlled it well around 650 lb. I had problems with the chest pressure, but near the Horseshoe I started to get more frequent chuffs and the chest pressure building up.
So, I had the right water, the right mass, the chest pressure increasing. The boiler pressure was dangerously low but about 131 psi. And I remember that I placed the cut off at the maximum and the pressure HUD gauge remained at that pressure of near 130 and always gree (while the chest press was increasing).
Then suddenly with about 75% boiler water level (and 4000 gal in the tender), I got a message: "The locomotive ran out of water" and the scenario terminated about 10 seconds later.

There is a thread going on in Steam right now about a similar bug. The author is talking about the Black 5 and there has been many cases like that as if it were a core bug. Nobody posting there have a clue about it. I experienced a similar problem a couple months ago under TS2015

Could have been a problem in one of the helpers? Or just that bug)?
Any ideas?

[trev123]

Double heading Steamers in TS has a bug in it. I found out about it when I first got the PRR K4 when it first came out. With auto fireman off the first thing you notice is you cannot manually fill the boiler, it will start auto filling at about 70% and fill to 90% then stop. And also as you have mentioned running out of water when you have enough in the boiler. I have had that message at 85%. This doesn't always happen though when you are double heading. It seems to be random. The scenario that came with the PRR K4 double heading, I eventually completed it after about 4 goes. The most frustrating time I ran out of water with 85% full was about half a mile from the end. This subject has also come up on UKTS with the recently released DTG Peppercorn Class K1 steam loco. DTG know about this issue as I have emailed support about it a few times. I stay away from double headed steam loco scenarios.

[jalsina]

Double heading Steamers in TS has a bug in it. I found out about it when I first got the PRR K4 when it first came out. With auto fireman off the first thing you notice is you cannot manually fill the boiler, it will start auto filling at about 70% and fill to 90% then stop. And also as you have mentioned running out of water when you have enough in the boiler. I have had that message at 85%. This doesn't always happen though when you are double heading. It seems to be random. The scenario that came with the PRR K4 double heading, I eventually completed it after about 4 goes. The most frustrating time I ran out of water with 85% full was about half a mile from the end. This subject has also come up on UKTS with the recently released DTG Peppercorn Class K1 steam loco. DTG know about this issue as I have emailed support about it a few times. I stay away from double headed steam loco scenarios.

I have ran several times double headed K4 in the Horseshoe. Only once had that problem and could have been a double but don't remember. The gentleman posting in steam mentioned a Black 5. I believe he suggest using only one unit.

[jalsina]

Double heading Steamers in TS has a bug in it. I found out about it when I first got the PRR K4 when it first came out. With auto fireman off the first thing you notice is you cannot manually fill the boiler, it will start auto filling at about 70% and fill to 90% then stop............

I have no doubt now about a bug in double headers. That example with the Black 5 was a double header. And it seems the Connie is not safe of that bug and probably the FEF-3 won't be either.
My bet is that water depletes slowly in the AI second unit until its boiler runs out of water.
I wonder if the Consolidation identified as AI helper could work for such a job. And if it is possible to script the AI to mimic everything that is being done in the head unit....i.e. I fill water, the AI does the same and so on.

[buzz456]

I have run many double headers with Dick Cowen's locomotives and never seen this.

[mrennie]

Double heading Steamers in TS has a bug in it. I found out about it when I first got the PRR K4 when it first came out. With auto fireman off the first thing you notice is you cannot manually fill the boiler, it will start auto filling at about 70% and fill to 90% then stop............

I have no doubt now about a bug in double headers. That example with the Black 5 was a double header. And it seems the Connie is not safe of that bug and probably the FEF-3 won't be either.

My bet is that water depletes slowly in the AI second unit until its boiler runs out of water.
I wonder if the Consolidation identified as AI helper could work for such a job. And if it is possible to script the AI to mimic everything that is being done in the head unit....i.e. I fill water, the AI does the same and so on.

I've run the FEF-3 double-headed (player-driven Advanced or HUD with a HUD version right behind it) and had no problems most of the time, but sometimes (not often), the brake gauges in the player-driven loco go a bit crazy. However, I've never had the AI FEF-3 run out of water. Maybe that's because the FEF-3 has the scripted expert auto-fireman, which is permanently enabled in the HUD versions (and hence in the second, AI, engine) which does indeed manage everything, including the keeping the water in the boiler at the right level.

The Connie, on the other hand, doesn't have a scripted auto-fireman. It uses the game's own auto-fireman, and perhaps therein lies the problem. It could well be true that the solution is indeed to scrap the game's auto-fireman and do its job instead from the engine script itself.

Another related point about the FEF-3 is that in order for its complicated smoke and steam effects to work in the AI loco behind the player-driven loco, data is sent from the player loco to the AI. It includes the boiler pressure and steam chest pressure in the player-driven loco - that's because the AI loco's script, if it reads its own boiler pressure and steam chest pressure from the core code, is returned zero! Therefore, the AI loco's engine script takes that data directly from the player-driven loco instead.

It looks as if the core code generates very minimal simulation data for the AI loco, so the script will fail if it doesn't take that into account.

[mrennie]

I have run many double headers with Dick Cowen's locomotives and never seen this.

I only ever had it happen once with the Connie, but it was when I did a very long double-headed run over Marias Pass that took hours (and ended when I got the "ran out of water" message - clearly from the AI, given that the player loco was fine).

[jalsina]

I have run many double headers with Dick Cowen's locomotives and never seen this.

Because it seems it is an event of low probability.
I have experienced it twice myself. I believe the first time was one of those double K4 scenarios for the Horseshoe.
It doesn't happen frequently but it is an error as annoying as the one related with AI trains colliding or derailing elsewhere in the route and terminating your scenario.
So far I know of: K4, Consolidation, Black 5 and it seems there is a discussion in UKT with Riviera 50s locos going on.

[mrennie]

I've added a few lines to the HUD version's script so that it forces the exhaust injector to operate when the loco is an AI and the boiler water level dips below 80%. Hopefully that'll fix the problem.

[jalsina]

I've added a few lines to the HUD version's script so that it forces the exhaust injector to operate when the loco is an AI and the boiler water level dips below 80%. Hopefully that'll fix the problem.

Good news.
Lets hope a possible core bug doesn't override the script instructions.
Just to clear out:
Is this implemented in the second update for the AI version, or is it for the next?
I mention it because the consist I built (and failed with the water error) had the HUD for both locos in the double header and I only used the "AI helper" version in the rear (3 consolidations in total).