RSC 2-8-0 CONSOLIDATION

[jalsina]

Generally, I use the throttle for control at low speed - watching the steam chest pressure gauge, but at higher speed I open the throttle enough to get the steam chest pressure gauge needle to be oscillating around 200psi (slightly below) and then use the reverser. I also run at abpout 190psi boiler pressure so that if I need to shorten the cut-off to reduce speed, the safety valves won't lift when the boiler pressure rises.

I also try to stay a little bit lower than 200 psi. Not easy at low speeds and when descending a steep grade.

For the grades, I sometimes use the F3 HUD, but I prefer to avoid even that. If you watch the speedometer and listen to the frequency of the chuffs, you can sense when the grade is changing. However, when I don't know the line too well and don't know what grade changes are approaching, it's handy to have the F3 HUD open so you have time to prepare for what lies ahead.

I had assumed it was not possible using an HUD with the ADV versions (FEF3 or Consolidation). One of my major problems to drive a loco without HUD is how to know about the road max speed. Not easy in many routes. About the chuffs frequency listening it is ok for me. However I have problems under HUD like accidentally closing dampers. I forget opening the blower when required. I get out of focus because I am watching the landscape, taking pics or just my wife is talking to me about getting the garbage out or some show she is looking at the TV. So go figure what will be under ADV. The F5 will help a little. And besides there is all that story around lubricating the gear.
Multiply all that by 2 in the FEF-3

The very latest upgrade (the one with the smoke) will have a new wide-angle view on the engineer's side that lets you see more of the cab at once, making it much easier to use all the levers and watch the gauges and the fire, without needing to move the camera around.

There is already a wide angle that is is pretty good to watch the gauges and use the main controls. But yet I am used to driving with the close up right window or out-the-window

[mrennie]

It's only the F4 HUD that is incompatible with Adv version. You can use the F3 HUD freely. With the F5 HUD, keep in mind that it can be misleading unless you understand that in many cases it's not showing what it says it's showing. The manual explains it.

For keeping the boiler pressure lower, there are several solutions. One is to keep the fire low. So when you're a few miles from where a downhill stretch begins, stop stoking the fire and let it burn down to, say, 450lbs instead of keeping it at the ideal fire mass (650lbs). You can also close the damper and use the live injector (engineers side) to top up the boiler. Both will lower the boiler pressure quickly. Another thing is to go down the hill with the reverser well forward and a little bit of throttle, so that the steam chest pressure stays well below 200psi. In real life, they do coast downhill with a long cutoff so that the lubricant continues to reach the full travel of the valves (otherwise, they could dry up and cause wear when suddenly switching from a short to a longer cutoff at the next uphill section).You would still use the brakes of course.

[jalsina]

It's only the F4 HUD that is incompatible with Adv version. You can use the F3 HUD freely. With the F5 HUD, keep in mind that it can be misleading unless you understand that in many cases it's not showing what it says it's showing. The manual explains it.

I have read your remarks about F5. I think you mentioned a problem about differences with the chest pressure. I have keeped an eye and found no difference at all. It maybe something buggy that appears sometimes.
It shouldn't be different. These values are only game variable readings. It was present in MSTS (Kuju inherited to TS), though with more information. And it was very useful for designers.

For keeping the boiler pressure lower, there are several solutions. One is to keep the fire low. So when you're a few miles from where a downhill stretch begins, stop stoking the fire and let it burn down to, say, 450lbs instead of keeping it at the ideal fire mass (650lbs).

This is a very good tip. I have to learn to interpret the burning mass shape animation.

You can also close the damper and use the live injector (engineers side) to top up the boiler. Both will lower the boiler pressure quickly. Another thing is to go down the hill with the reverser well forward and a little bit of throttle, so that the steam chest pressure stays well below 200psi.

Is the live injector the same "small injector" in F5?
Going down the hill with full or high reverser may be a buggy issue in TS2016 (2015) concerning water expenditure. Let me explain.
Very early after I acquired TS2015 I had a discussion with a UK player that seems to have experience firing and driving steam locomotives. He mentioned to use full reverser and regulate steam with the regulator (in all instances). I was very puzzled at that statement but may be a way to do things in UK steamers.
But I discovered going downhill in the Horseshoe Curve, with the K4 with high reverser settings, the locomotive spends water at a very high rate. In one of those situations from Gallitzin to Johnstown, I ended with the tender empty. The K4 does well when using low reverser to go down.
I have observed similar situations with the Berk. I still have my screenshots with notes about the tests with the K4.
I have to try that in a loco such the Connie but my nose says it is a problem in the core game.

[mrennie]

I have read your remarks about F5. I think you mentioned a problem about differences with the chest pressure. I have keeped an eye and found no difference at all. It maybe something buggy that appears sometimes.
It shouldn't be different. These values are only game variable readings. It was present in MSTS (Kuju inherited to TS), though with more information. And it was very useful for designers.

What the F5 HUD calls "steam chest pressure" is actually something close to the average pressure in the cylinders, which is very different from the real steam chest pressure. The gauge in the cab (the lower of the two large gauges) shows the instantaneous pressure in the steam chest and you'll see how it bobs up and down in time with the opening and closing of the admission valves as steam leaves it to go into the cylinders (it goes up as it refills with steam from the boiler entering the chest through the open throttle valves). In the advanced steam locos (not just mine, but all the advanced ones), the value of "regulator" in the F5 HUD is an indication of how much steam there is in the steam chest. If you close the cylinder cocks while the loco is at a standstill and crack open the throttle, you'll see the steam chest pressure gauge in the cab go up to near 200psi and "regulator" in the F5 HUD will go up to near 100% - they both mean the steam chest is full. Meanwhile the "steam chest pressure" in the F5 HUD will show zero.

Is the live injector the same "small injector" in F5?

No, the "small ejector" (not injector) is for steam vacuum brakes (it creates the initial vacuum that allows the large ejector to work, and keeps the brakes released. It's nothing to do with water injectors.

Going down the hill with full or high reverser may be a buggy issue in TS2016 (2015) concerning water expenditure. Let me explain.
Very early after I acquired TS2015 I had a discussion with a UK player that seems to have experience firing and driving steam locomotives. He mentioned to use full reverser and regulate steam with the regulator (in all instances). I was very puzzled at that statement but may be a way to do things in UK steamers.
But I discovered going downhill in the Horseshoe Curve, with the K4 with high reverser settings, the locomotive spends water at a very high rate. In one of those situations from Gallitzin to Johnstown, I ended with the tender empty. The K4 does well when using low reverser to go down.
I have observed similar situations with the Berk. I still have my screenshots with notes about the tests with the K4.
I have to try that in a loco such the Connie but my nose says it is a problem in the core game.

Yes, I think I experienced that too in the Connie and FEF-3. It's ok for short periods, but as you say, the core code is very poor in some aspects of its simulation of steam (which is why we have to script so much of the advanced stuff ourselves, but always coming up against the limitations of the core code that can't be touched).

[jalsina]

Thank you for all these tips and those in Steam posts as well.
"Ejector" And besides related with vacuum brakes

[mrennie]

The useful thing about the live injector is that it uses "live" steam (taken straight from the boiler). That means it injects faster, but it also uses more steam from the boiler, which is a help if you want to reduce the boiler pressure. You just have to be careful not to overfill the boiler, otherwise you can get water locking the throttle valve in place and eventually getting into the cylinders (which, as you know, is not good).

[jalsina]

I have to confess that in the last 2 or 3 days with the Consolidation I have overflowed the boiler twice
I don´t have anymore the age required to be an engineer
And I do not have a fireman at my side to double watch this kind of easy details with even a noise in the background. I have tried to convince my wife to take the job, but no way!

[tg626]

So, forgive my noobish question and general lack of experience but...

Should I expect to stall pulling the consist below up a 2.5% grade?



I have read that on this part of the route, trains were commonly split and pulled up in 2 halves to be reassembled at the summit, but I don't know what the prototype was pulling or what they used for locomotives so....

Raquette Lake Railway, and [Tank, Box, Cattle (empty), Box, Refer, Box, Caboose] BTW

[ozinoz]

Hi mate...
the Connie is an old engine - saturated steam even, so that might be on the cusp of its limit. Still 1:40 should be do-able and believe me, along with Mike's FEF3, you will get the best possible experience. Mike puts about as much work into his engine performance scripting as his models, so they are pretty acurate preformance wise. Knuckle down, use the sander for some extra traction and give it a run If you master it in the dry, change the adhesion factor and try it in the rain for a bigger test, and then the snow (I doubt she would do 2.5% in the snow )

(welcome to the forums. We are a fairly good bunch, except Buzz who gets crabby if you stray off thread topic . Remember, the only dumb / noob question is the one you dont ask. Everybody has questions and there is such a depth of knowledge floating round here, be it TS or real world, somebody will know and all seem happy to share ...)

from Down Under

G

[tg626]

Ha-ha I'm outta cash ATM! (No pun intended)

I want to be clear I am NOT questioning the simulation. I'd gave no grounds on which to do so, and lord knows I have no real idea what I'm doing on the controls.

In fact I had the autofireman on which I'm sure is taking "can do with care" straight into "no way".

I was just checking on what this little gem could really do as I have no frame of reference.

[jalsina]

So, forgive my noobish question and general lack of experience but...

Should I expect to stall pulling the consist below up a 2.5% grade?
…...............
I have read that on this part of the route, trains were commonly split and pulled up in 2 halves to be reassembled at the summit, but I don't know what the prototype was pulling or what they used for locomotives so....

Raquette Lake Railway, and [Tank, Box, Cattle (empty), Box, Refer, Box, Caboose] BTW

It will depend not only of the grade but as well as of the consist you are pulling. Yesterday I climbed the Horseshoe Curve from Altoona with the Connie HUD. Most of that part of the route has 1.8% to 2% grades. I was pulling 8 PRR boxcars. However at some places my maximum speed was barely 10 mph. In other places I got the road speed max which is mostly 30 mph. Dampers full open and a lot of help with the blower when nearly stalling, always trying to produce more steam than using. So it requires a lot of adjustments of regulator and reverser.
It is certainly a nice locomotive.
The same was later on in Soldier Summit starting in Helper, with similar grades
The FEF3 is another story. Pure horsepower! Here you can move a nice consist.

[pavig]

I was just checking on what this little gem could really do as I have no frame of reference.

Slow and steady wins the race with the Connie. She is no speed demon, but copes well with freight. It requires careful boiler management however - as soon as you overtax the loco her performance falls off a cliff. If your pressure drops off it is best to pause, turn on the hand brakes on a few cars, and have a cup of tea while you contemplate the error of your ways.

I am sure people on the board could give you lots of technical tips for how to get the most out of the Connie, but in my experience it is as much an art as a science. When you figure out what she wants she will surprise you with how powerful and versatile she is.

[tg626]

I'm starting to see that.

What would be a typical "cruise" speed for her? I realize that depends on a ton of factors, but I'm wondering 30-40mph is simply too much to expect.

Meanwhile I think I'm learning the value of the steam chest gauge....

[mrennie]

I'm starting to see that.

What would be a typical "cruise" speed for her? I realize that depends on a ton of factors, but I'm wondering 30-40mph is simply too much to expect.

Meanwhile I think I'm learning the value of the steam chest gauge....

You're right that cruising speed depends on many factors, but with a typical consist (like the ones in the QD selections), she should have no trouble cruising along at 30-40mph, or even faster (although at faster speeds you need to stoke faster and be very vigilant of the boiler water level). Of course, if you go too fast for too long, it can destroy the valve gear ;)

[mrennie]

In fact I had the autofireman on which I'm sure is taking "can do with care" straight into "no way".

Exactly! The game's default auto-fireman is awful. It follows very, very simple rules about when to start and stop stoking and when to fill the boiler, so it never manages to keep the boiler at optimum performance. In fact, it's so bad that they (Kuju or whoever wrote that bit of core code) compensated for it in the code by inserting something that artificially prevents the boiler pressure from going below 60% (I think it was 60%) of the maximum, when the auto-fireman is enabled. That's what we call a "cop out". At one point, I did consider doing an "expert auto-fireman" for the Connie, along the lines of "Ted" in the FEF-3, but I never got around to it. It's actually much easier to fire the Connie than the FEF-3, so I see less need for Ted to fire the Connie.