The new Pacific Surfliner Amtrak EMD F59PHI locomotives

[ErikGorbiHamilton]

All we need now are some Bombardier cars and a sound transit repaint of the F59PHI then

Eyein has soundtransit repaints for Seattle to Tacoma


*Whispers to myself* I can do what dad has to do on some days! IM FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[BNSFdude]

The dynamics are only really effective until 60MPH.

[buzz456]

The dynamics are only really effective until 60MPH.

Do you have to do anything on this other than push the dynamic brake lever up? It's making noise but on the 2% grade it doesn't begin to hold the train back going about 25 or am I missing something?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The dynamics are only really effective until 60MPH.

Coming down to 60 or going down from 60? From the scarce info I have collected from online sources, the dynamics are most effective round 30 MpH.

Did you set up the locos? There is an official manual on eBay, but since so many vendors seem to sell it, it doubt is really is an original worth its auction price.
Anyway, it is sort of a covered GP59 with some extra passenger features so not too far out of line with EMD's freight locomotives.
The 110 MpH gearing and blended brakes are the most important differences I think.

Given the limititations of RSC's simulation engine I think it is a fine piece of work and a welcome addition to our rosters.
It has some minor flaws and with more time and scripting effort could have been made more interesting/challenging to control.
Oh well, there is always the opportunity to do an 'Expert line' edition, like with many German locos, for an extra price.

Is ATS in use on the real Surfliner corridor?

[mrgreen]

Okay I did some counting.

In the simulation file (not sure if this is prototypical since I can not find any sources on the Internet) the F59PHI has 155kN of dynamic brake-force (35 * 1000 lbf = 155kN).
155 divided by 405 (Locomotive weight + 5 cars or 120 + 5*57) gives a deceleration of 0.38m/s^2, so to get the 2mph/s (0.89m/s^2) deceleration that Kanawha was talking about the average MaxForcePercentOfVehicleWeight would have to be 51.

I'm not sure the 2mph/s figure was with a single locomotive or a whole trainset.

EDIT: Do dynamic brakes follow the same "rules" as traction, i.e. available traction is never more than power divided by speed?

If that was true 155kN (or 100% of dynamic brake force) at 60mph would require ~ 4.2MW.

[ErikGorbiHamilton]

Say im not a repainter but are the paint files a mess like they usually are?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Okay I did some counting.

In the simulation file (not sure if this is prototypical since I can not find any sources on the Internet) the F59PHI has 155kN of dynamic brake-force (35 * 1000 lbf = 155kN).
155 divided by 405 (Locomotive weight + 5 cars or 120 + 5*57) gives a deceleration of 0.38m/s^2, so to get the 2mph/s (0.89m/s^2) deceleration that Kanawha was talking about the average MaxForcePercentOfVehicleWeight would have to be 51.

I'm not sure the 2mph/s figure was with a single locomotive or a whole trainset.

EDIT: Do dynamic brakes follow the same "rules" as traction, i.e. available traction is never more than power divided by speed?

If that was true 155kN (or 100% of dynamic brake force) at 60mph would require ~ 4.2MW.

Dynamic braking power follows a curve and is limited by the maximum thermal dissipation capacity of the resistor grid. I believe in the F59PHI the maximum resistor grid current is 750 Amps. The optimum effective speed of dynamic braking in passenger DC units is around 30 MpH. It would be interesting to simulate the blended braking of air combined with dynamics.

I assume the CalDOT requirements are for whole trains operating within their jurisdiction. They shouldn't be much different from Amtrak's other corridor services.

Does anybody know any real engineers who operate the Surfliners? They can tell where you'd start braking from what speed to make a precise and smooth station stop.

[1225fan5358]

Can anybody pull up a decent video featuring the quillable horn? I can't find any videos of realistic operations.

[mrgreen]

Kanawha: was the 2mph/s figure in your OP from a single unit or a trainset? And was it full service and full dynamic?

[BNSFdude]

i did a lot of the setting up, but I wasn't given the time to LUA Script anything advanced.

Dynamic Brake force, and Tractive Effort are taken from real world values.
The Dynamics reach maximum force at the same speed of Maximum Continuous Tractive Effort, around 12.4 MPH. The maximum effective speed is 60MPH.
With practice in the game, I've learned to make quite smooth stops. What I do is start using my dynamics from about a mile or so away when uner 79, just to bring my speed down to around 50, then I start blending it with air brakes to really slow it down for the platform.

[mrgreen]

i did a lot of the setting up, but I wasn't given the time to LUA Script anything advanced.

Dynamic Brake force, and Tractive Effort are taken from real world values.
The Dynamics reach maximum force at the same speed of Maximum Continuous Tractive Effort, around 12.4 MPH. The maximum effective speed is 60MPH.
With practice in the game, I've learned to make quite smooth stops. What I do is start using my dynamics from about a mile or so away when uner 79, just to bring my speed down to around 50, then I start blending it with air brakes to really slow it down for the platform.

That sounds great, but I think I must've gotten another DynamicBrakeEffortVsSpeed file or something because in mine the dynamic brake force is only about 40% at 20mph and increases until it is fully effective at 60mph and then stays at 100% until 110mph, or maybe I misunderstood what you meant?

[buzz456]

I did discover that the instructions about waiting ten seconds before engaging the dynamic brake seems to make it work a whole lot better. Made it down the big hill with just one little touch of the brakes on the 2% grade. Working as advertised I think.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Kanawha: was the 2mph/s figure in your OP from a single unit or a trainset? And was it full service and full dynamic?

I assume it is the maximum desirable service rate, using the blended brakes, i.e. dynamics and train brakes combined for the whole trainset.

The cars also have some sort of blended braking, one would assume the self ventilating disc brakes come in first and deliver about 60% of the braking power, the thread brakes come in later and deliver 40% of the braking power. What the cut-in point of the thread brakes is I haven't found out yet, I assume from a certain train line reduction. They certainly must have come in at the full service reduction of 26 PsI.

I follow the same procedure as BNSFdude after a few rounds of practice with the first three scenarios. But I ease off on the train brakes before they bite the train to a halt, making the final stop on the independent with the train brakes already releasing. So when the highball comes, my train is able to start right away without the wait for the train brakes to release. Therefor I value correct pressure gauges.

According to this blog, parts of the Surfliner route have ATS: http://www.metrolinktrains.com/news/?id=4341
surflinerstories.blogspot.nl/2012/09/remote-control.html
or read in on trainorders.com, railforum.com or westcoastrailforums.com and probably more. There is a lot of info I haven't yet perused.

I did discover that the instructions about waiting ten seconds before engaging the dynamic brake seems to make it work a whole lot better. Made it down the big hill with just one little touch of the brakes on the 2% grade. Working as advertised I think.

Correct, there is compulsory delay for the switchgear to do the switching and the alternator to unload. Don't go into full dynamics straight away, your passengers won't like the jerking and jolting.

[buzz456]

They also don't work right away.

[mrgreen]

Kanawha: was the 2mph/s figure in your OP from a single unit or a trainset? And was it full service and full dynamic?

I assume it is the maximum desirable service rate, using the blended brakes, i.e. dynamics and train brakes combined for the whole trainset.

The cars also have some sort of blended braking, one would assume the self ventilating disc brakes come in first and deliver about 60% of the braking power, the thread brakes come in later and deliver 40% of the braking power. What the cut-in point of the thread brakes is I haven't found out yet, I assume from a certain train line reduction. They certainly must have come in at the full service reduction of 26 PsI.

I follow the same procedure as BNSFdude after a few rounds of practice with the first three scenarios. But I ease off on the train brakes before they bite the train to a halt, making the final stop on the independent with the train brakes already releasing. So when the highball comes, my train is able to start right away without the wait for the train brakes to release. Therefor I value correct pressure gauges.

According to this blog, parts of the Surfliner route have ATS: http://www.metrolinktrains.com/news/?id=4341
surflinerstories.blogspot.nl/2012/09/remote-control.html
or read in on trainorders.com, railforum.com or westcoastrailforums.com and probably more. There is a lot of info I haven't yet perused.

[quote "buzz456"]I did discover that the instructions about waiting ten seconds before engaging the dynamic brake seems to make it work a whole lot better. Made it down the big hill with just one little touch of the brakes on the 2% grade. Working as advertised I think.

Correct, there is compulsory delay for the switchgear to do the switching and the alternator to unload. Don't go into full dynamics straight away, your passengers won't like the jerking and jolting.[/quote]

I found that changing the MaxForcePercentOfVehicleWeight to >35< on the passenger cars results in about 2mph/s deceleration when the dynamic brake is fully effective.