AMD Ryzen Talk.

[Ericmopar]

I'm starting this thread to hear ideas and thoughts about AMD's Ryzen CPUs and new Vega GPUs.

I'm thinking of going AMD for the first time in my life. AMD has finally come out with a design that appears to be the best of Intel and AMD combined.
The single core IPC of the new Ryzen chips is on par with the Intel Kaby and Skylake chips, plus AMD has added gaming specific features like a smart cache for frequently accessed program files.
The pricing looks like it will be competitive as well.
I have to admit though, rumors coming out of Intel state that, Intel will make the next Kaby Lake i5 7740K an 4 core, 8 threaded chip. Hyper threading for the i5s Hmmmmm....
Then again, there will be a 6 core 12 threaded Ryzen chip, in the same price category as current i5s that is competitive on a single core basis. That looks promising for TSW... Hmmmmm

[g_nash]

Vega GPUs

I'd guess that many will be interested to see how FreeSync 2 performs against G-Sync ? I'm interested in AMDs performance on the new, coming soon, HDR monitors.

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/radeon-polaris

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10967/amd-announces-freesync-2-improving-ease-lowering-latency-of-hdr-gaming

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3154466/displays/jaw-droppingly-gorgeous-hdr-explodes-onto-pc-monitors-at-ces-2017.html

The Future Is $$%

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Interesting for sure. And good for the competition on the market.

But will it be enough to break Intel/nVidia's dominance in the high end market?

MInd you, these processors etc. are only of interest to hardcore gamers.

The mainstream user has long abandoned PC, a handheld device is more than enough to browse the net and use email and social media for the great majority of people.

Office and/or business use of PC doesn't require that much CPU and GPU power.

I am more interested in affordable OLED monitors of larger sizes, preferably in 21:9 format.

[Ericmopar]

Here are some preliminary prices and other juicy tidbits.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-full-line ... ds-leaked/

[g_nash]

Here are some preliminary prices and other juicy tidbits.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-full-line ... ds-leaked/

Hmm..clocks aren't quite as high as I expected . Pricing is certainly competitive though . Based only on the available text, the Ryzen 5 1600X might be the sweet spot in bang_4_bucks

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Hmm..clocks aren't quite as high as I expected . Pricing is certainly competitive though . Based only on the available text, the Ryzen 5 1600X might be the sweet spot in bang_4_bucks

Bang_4_bucks was AMD/ATI's sole advantage in the budget to lower mid-range market sector. Its upper mid-range products however fared very poorly in the Bang_vs_Watts, meaning they weren't as cost effective over the longer run when energy costs were included.

However, dry GHz figures only mean so much.
Isn't the actual performance more dependent on the way code is compiled to run on a certain processor's architecture?

Does AMD have its own compilers and libraries, that allow creators to use its architecture to the fullest? Large parts of the Windows OS and most games are heavily optimised towards Intel's architecture. Isn't DX on which most games still rely also optimised towards nVidia GPU's, with nVidia being Intel's graphics partner?

[g_nash]

Bang_4_bucks was AMD/ATI's sole advantage in the budget to lower mid-range market sector. Its upper mid-range products however fared very poorly in the Bang_vs_Watts, meaning they weren't as cost effective over the longer run when energy costs were included.

Yeah, that's true on both counts Though if I look at this from only my personal viewpoint and circumstances today, and not in the past, Bang_vs_Watts is now ( almost ) irrelevant because of our solar array and a small storage system. My daytime computer energy use, which accounts for 70% or so of computing time is now virtually free.

However, dry GHz figures only mean so much. Isn't the actual performance more dependent on the way code is compiled to run on a certain processor's architecture?

Not sure ... I can only add this link and you can take a look at the comment by Ondra (real name Adam ) at reply #7 when talking about Intels Embree on both Intel and AMD. He heads up the Corona Render project .. take from it what you will.

https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index ... pic=5624.0

When first implemented, embree made waaay bigger difference in Corona than 30% - it is líke some crazy unicorn pony magic! I also tested embree on an AMD rig, and it was not significantly slower. I suspect Corona is slower there because I only develop and optimize on Intel. Maybe sometimes in the future I will try to optimize also on AMD.

Does AMD have its own compilers and libraries, that allow creators to use its architecture to the fullest? Large parts of the Windows OS and most games are heavily optimised towards Intel's architecture. Isn't DX on which most games still rely also optimised towards nVidia GPU's, with nVidia being Intel's graphics partner?

I don't know much about compilers and libraries and take interest only in what each CPU company offers in terms of raw GHz/Cores/Threads and the benefits in speed I can get ... For my areas of interest ( outside of gaming ) GPUs are dominated by nVidia CUDA tech and I think it won't change much in the future.

And now back to your regular New AMD toys programing

[Ericmopar]

The problems with AMD in the past have been heat and low Instructions Per Cycle compared to Intel, but that has changed with Ryzen because AMD's new chips are on the same 14nm architecture now.
The 14nm construction process is why it's big news, since smaller transistors = lower heat and more IPC.
What interests me even more, is that AMD says this total redesign also includes gaming specific code.
The only problem with going all AMD, is that AMD apparently doesn't support Phys-X used in some games. I'm not sure how that actually affects things.
I already have a new GTX 1070 so I'm just looking at AMD, CPU's and Motherboards.

I'm not crazy though. I won't run out like a mad man buying AMD, until some of the tech outfits like Linus Tech Tips actually build and compare.
The clock speeds on the "X" derivatives are capable of going much higher, with aftermarket cooling and will "auto overclock".
All the Ryzen chips will be unlocked, but some will require manual overclocking, just like Intel and AMD's current products.

[g_nash]

Still a couple of weeks before we see independent benchmarks but this does look promising ..

AMD Ryzen 5 1600X Benchmarks, Faster Than Intel’s Fastest 6 Core

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-5-1600x-l ... st-6-core/

Might be worth keeping an eye on this for those looking for a cost effective new build for TSW.

[Ericmopar]

That is interesting. I just benchmarked my i5-3570k overclocked to 4.1Ghz, with CPU-Z and it came out just a bit below that new 6 core Ryzen at 1779, on the single core bench.
Considering that Ryzen 6 core 1600X is running at 3.7Ghz, it is just a bit faster than mine per core, per cycle.

The newer Kaby Lake i5-7600K is benching faster at around 2200, but I've been seeing tests of heavy core usage games showing them to be no real improvement for some reason. Certain Skylake chips are doing better in CPU heavy games and sims than the new Kaby Lake, despite the higher clock speeds.
Something like that though could be the new Z270 chipset, not the CPU itself. I just found out recently, that my Z77 chipset never ran as smooth as the generation before it. (apparently)

The only real concern I have now is, will AMD based mobos be as reliable?
I stumbled across some info earlier today, suggesting the motherboard manufacturers don't seem to put as much effort into the AMD boards, that things like capacitors etc are more likely to burn out, especially if a person likes to overclock. Of course MSI and Asus are using much better Caps these days, so that may no longer be an issue.

In any case the performance of the new AMD, CPUs is going to force Intel's pricing down for sure.

[ex-railwayman]

My only thoughts are that DTG recommend playing this game with nVidia GPUs and have done so for the last few years. I have obtained AMD cards since 2009 and they have't been as good a performer as anything from nVidia has. We can also now get this Dynamic Super Resolution on the GTX 9 and 10 series cards, with a new screen resolution of 2715x1527, it's in your settings on your nVidia control panel, when you launch any game it will compress the res and gives 4k graphics on a 1080 monitor, no need for many of us now to upgrade our equipment, for the next few years, at least.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

.... no need for many of us now to upgrade our equipment, for the next few years, at least.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

Yes, this is quite true. Both CPU, GPU and RAM have reached their ceiling performance wise already a couple of years ago. Only radically new technology will allow significant advances in raw power.
Also, the casual desktop user hardly notices all this power. Only hardcore gamers do, and even then any FPS above say 30 to 60 is wasted. How fast can a liquid crystal move and the human brain registering?

There is still something to be gained in the efficiency, i.e. lowering power consumption. 1 KW PSU's to power a gaming rig, WTF???

[Ericmopar]

I'm still sticking with Nvidia GPUs, but the AMD Ryzen CPUs are starting to sway me from Intel on the motherboard front.

A person doesn't need a 1kw PSU anymore. Most people can get away with half that now. I have a 800watt supply, because I know it will simply last longer and run quieter.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I'm still sticking with Nvidia GPUs, but the AMD Ryzen CPUs are starting to sway me from Intel on the motherboard front.

A person doesn't need a 1kw PSU anymore. Most people can get away with half that now. I have a 800watt supply, because I know it will simply last longer and run quieter.

So far in my experience, AMD motherboard chipsets have been lacking, compared to Intel. There surely must be new chipsets released that fully support AMD's new CPU and GPU??

I currently still have AsRock AMD 990FX motherboard running Railworks on a 4 core 4 GHz FX4100 processor, but that combination is very noisy due to unregulated fan headers.
Also, AMD AM3+ socket and cooler mounting system is very much 2nd grade compared to Intel's.

AMD needs to improve in all of these aspects before I consider swapping those old AsRock boards for AMD again. Otherwise it will be Intel i5 Kaby Lake to support my 2015 nVidia 980Ti's, for probably the same cash outlay as the new AMD platform.

[Ericmopar]

AM4 is the new socket coming out for the new Ryzen based CPUs. The new CPU is in a smaller die than the old ones.
I could be wrong, but I think this will require a new CPU Cooler to fit.
That being said, AMD is designing the socket so people can stick with it for awhile. They're setting it up so people can go with 7nm in the future without buying a new motherboard.
They do have 3 chipsets in the works. The X370 being the high end one.
The unregulated fan headers are a function of BIOS not that it's AMD based. The new motherboards for AM4 have all the goodies like Intel. I'm particularly interested in MSI and Asus versions. Those new mobos from those manufacturers even have pump headers for liquid cooled setups.