Run8v2 is ....

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

excellent from the operational point of view, but still very poor graphically.
I've just got it Tuesday and immediately went exploring the AI. Very different from Quick Drive, as you actually have to dispatch the AI when it reaches a control point. You can let AI fend for itself also, and just run and dispatch your own player train.
If TSW gets a likewise AI and dispatcher, that would be awesome.

[JerryC]

It has been a while since I used Run 8. Going forward, I will not use, embrace, or purchase any version of it, no matter how good it may be, until the developers get over their fears that someone may take a dollar out of their pockets and open the game up for third party development. Running trains bores me to tears. The fun is in building them.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

To each his own.
You have the skill, time, tools and patience to build locomotives for VRC.
I don't posses any of the above.
My pleasure is driving trains. Railworks is for fun and pretty pictures, Run8 is for more serious running and dispatching.
Why is it rigid/unmodifiable, because of the use of XNA framework?

It remains to be seen wether TSW will be as open and accessible as TS17. Like I've said, I expect any MP and/or multi-platform game to be closed/locked down.

[RAILSOHIO]

I feel Jerry was also eluding to fact that there is still no way to create your own route. Something they teased us with from the beginning. You are "trapped" in their virtual world,with no way to expand. Believe me,I had high hopes for Run 8 when it was released. As a former conductor,I am ALL for realism. Not one of the sims handles all aspects of railroading exceptionally well. I am happy you and many others are enjoying R8. My biggest concern at the moment,is that the upcoming TSW may not have any type of route editor,for a while.

[BNSFdude]

I feel Jerry was also eluding to fact that there is still no way to create your own route. Something they teased us with from the beginning. You are "trapped" in their virtual world,with no way to expand. Believe me,I had high hopes for Run 8 when it was released. As a former conductor,I am ALL for realism. Not one of the sims handles all aspects of railroading exceptionally well. I am happy you and many others are enjoying R8. My biggest concern at the moment,is that the upcoming TSW may not have any type of route editor,for a while.

You really think DTG is that short sighted to not have a Route editor on release of the full game? They wouldn't be showing it off in trailers if they weren't.

[plethaus]

I feel Jerry was also eluding to fact that there is still no way to create your own route. Something they teased us with from the beginning. You are "trapped" in their virtual world,with no way to expand. Believe me,I had high hopes for Run 8 when it was released. As a former conductor,I am ALL for realism. Not one of the sims handles all aspects of railroading exceptionally well. I am happy you and many others are enjoying R8. My biggest concern at the moment,is that the upcoming TSW may not have any type of route editor,for a while.

You really think DTG is that short sighted to not have a Route editor on release of the full game? They wouldn't be showing it off in trailers if they weren't.

They haven't shown the editor in trailers at all yet. What they've shown is the UE4 tools that they use in-house, not the editing tools for end-users. Just clarifying that.

[JerryC]

I'm speculating here, no surety about it at all, but I think that creating a route is going to be closely tied to the UE4 Engine, which in itself has extensive creation tools. From my experience with the UE4 Editor, you could pretty much create an entire route within it from the rails up.

As for Run 8, there is a route creation editor so to speak, because I know of people outside of their core "engineers" who have made / are making routes for them.

[RAILSOHIO]

Oh how this has gone south,fast. I was unaware some people "found a way",to create routes in Run 8. And the implication from reading the DTG blogs is that an editor for the new sim may not be packaged with the initial release.(not talking beta here) I love what I have seen,so far,including the video in Diary 3, of world creation. I did not say DTG was "short sighted". I am very much looking forward to TSW.

[trev123]

Quote. "Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul – Developer & Player Creation Tools
(Q) “Will we be able to create our own routes when your new simulator gets released?” from Thomas Ølmheim
(A) The tools that will allow players and partnered developers to make routes and other content are currently still in development. While we understand how much many of you like to enhance your hobby with our creativity tools, it’s important that these tools are built carefully, with the assistance of your feedback, to ensure they are as powerful and intuitive as we all need them to be."

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Run8 so far isn't your "general public"/Joe Average kind of train simulator. It is for affoncionados only.
For a route to be multi-role and multi-player suitable, it has to follow strict rules probably. Therefor it is best not to let anybody dabble in route creation?

Asset creation, rolling stock creation, etc. could be allowed to a wider audience apart from the incrowd/preferred business partners.

So there must be editors in use, and given the Run8 proprietor's heritage in MSTS building and creation (IIRC they also did the original Cajon Pass for Kuju and have released the Cab Forward for Railworks) I suspect Run8 still very much has a MSTS foundation. AFAIK it is created using XNA, a proprietary Microsoft gaming suite, which already is considered obsolete?

Apart from that, there appear to be no BNSF licensing issues, or no valid BSNF license to inhibit foreign sales of Run8?

Anyway, Run8v2 has many features I would like to see in TSW, its physics, operational realism, AI and dispatcher desk.

Back to TSW proper and continuing the line of assumptions/speculations:

Regarding the TSW route and asset creation tools, these could be an optional commercial extra for those interested.
The generic "player" version of TSW only comes with locked down routes and trains and a scenario editor to put those trains to work on those routes in free roam, AI and simple MP scenarios. Both on the PC and on the console versions of the game, hence the need for standard and locked routes, assets and rolling stock.

For those inclined to create their own routes and assets, they could buy a creator's license, get assigned a developer ID, and have their own shopwindow on the TSW gaming platform's electronic store. With the proper UE4 based tools, skills and patience, they then start filling up that store with their creations.
Creations released for free are avaliable for everybody to subscribe to, much like the Marketplace/Workshop.
Creations that are to be paid for could be bought and added to the player's account, with or without a license to further alter that route/asset or repaint that piece of rolling stock.

How should TSW cater to the occasional tinkerer, or the younger or casual player with a more playful nature? Will it be a game or a simulator??

We just have to wait and see. No doubt, the preferred commercial partners and DTG's incrowd are already hard at work under a Non Disclosure Agreement on creating exciting stuff for TSW's coming release.

Interesting would be how the different markets of the present (Germany, UK and USA) will be serviced and wether DTG has a real interest in expanding towards France, Eastern Europe, Japan or Australia, chasing after Trainz/MSTS/OR or Run8's present user base.

[JerryC]

Plain and simple, Train Sim World is going to eat Run 8 for lunch. The graphics are far superior - if you want to keep living in 8-bit MSTS world with a game engine that Microsoft no longer supports, be my guest. And as far as operations go, TSW will not be shackled by Railsimulator's ten years old game core. A win there as well. And has been stated by DTG's literature and videos, there will be Editors for content creation, so Run 8 can suck-it on that point too.

The main thing to remember is that Train Sim World is a totaly NEW simulation, starting from the ground floor. It will start off base with room to grow, unlike Run 8, which started off base and continues to be only what the Lucasian creators want, without care for what it's customers and fans want it to be. TSW won't be everything to everyone at it's launch, but lets give the benefit of the doubt before declaring it a turd. If after a year or so there is still no secondary routes or editors, then we should be concerned.

Now, as a reminder, this is Railworks America, devoted for the most part to our favorite sim from across the pond, so lets wind this conversation down, lest it be locked.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

We will just have to wait and see how TSW will evolve and how open it will be.

DTG have a lot on their plates right now. Given UE4's reputation and relative ease of use, I expect TSW to be visually stunning and superior to the other contestants in the market. Physics, sounds, handling, operations, dispatching or automation of AI is something completely different. Hopefully DTG will do it proper and right first time.

Any webpage that tells who is on their staff right now? There surely must have been jobs offered?

[artimrj]

It is called Train Sim World, not Train Sim USA. And this thread is about Run 8.

[trev123]

We will just have to wait and see how TSW will evolve and how open it will be.

DTG have a lot on their plates right now. Given UE4's reputation and relative ease of use, I expect TSW to be visually stunning and superior to the other contestants in the market. Physics, sounds, handling, operations, dispatching or automation of AI is something completely different. Hopefully DTG will do it proper and right first time.

Any webpage that tells who is on their staff right now? There surely must have been jobs offered?

Careers at DTG.
http://www.dovetailgames.com/vacancies

[peterhayes]

How TSW will effect realism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmo281NUg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-HlKF8AH0
This was Run8 three months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKm4CKZBVgY
I know which 'realism' I prefer.
pH