Railworks America

Taking up the suggestion on the RSC 2-8-0 Consolidation thread, this one is to talk about what I could do for the next project.

For example, the GN P-2 - another great looking classic US steam locomotive that would fit in with the Marias Pass (although just how well it would fit in depends, of course, on the time period).

The important thing is to have plenty of reference material. It's essential to have as many detailed drawings as possible, not just front, side and top elevation diagrams, but scale drawings of individual parts. It's the only way to achieve the level of detail I've aimed at with the Consolidation. Then there's the need for lots and lots of photos, from different angles, including close-ups, inside and out. A really tricky part is finding authentic sounds. YouTube videos can help to a certain extent.

So, here's the place to offer up suggestions, link to reference material, post photos, and so on, in the lead up to making a choice once the Consolidation is released.

Thanks in advance to everyone who takes an interest and especially to everyone who contributes. In return, I promise to try to make the next project even better than the first.


Cheers,

Mike

mrennie wrote:Thanks in advance to everyone who takes an interest and especially to everyone who contributes. In return, I promise to try to make the next project even better than the first.

Going by what we have already seen, I find that difficult to believe (unless of course you can get it to smell and radiate heat like the real thing )

Look forward to what ever you decide, but I am just itching to get my hands on this one first...



Grant


(so your a Brit, living in Spain, building US steam )

Interesting question this is.
Do you want a generic engine fitting a certain timeframe?
Do you want a small engine so as not to take up too much time?
Or do you want an engine fitting a certain route available in TS2013?

I'll stand by my original recommendation to only do engine for routes actually available.

The most desirable is probably the UP FEF 4-8-4, for which a complete set of drawings is available. A good model will sell well, no doubt at all.
UP's own #844 is still available in "heavy metal" and tons of photos etc. do exist.

The only proper steam era route is Horseshoe Curve, even though I haven't come across a water column and only saw rudimentary coal docks.
To go with the 'Curve, I suggest an M1A 4-8-2 and I1 2-10-0, M1(A) drawings are available from that site you already know of, but only erecting section and elevenation drawings. No doubt some PRR historic society can supply other drawings. AFAIK no engines are in preservation or museum display, but don't nail me on this. PRR engines look fairly plain and simple and no doubt many parts can be shared between these and some other models of PRR 4-4-2, 4-6-0 and 2-8-2 engines.

Personally, I would like to see ATSF 2900 4-8-4 and 5011 2-10-4 classes, even though these never ran together over Cajon Pass.
Having both of these ultimate Santa Fe steam engines in good models is very desirable. They are very big engines and loaded with state of the art steam engine appliances, requiring lots of detail. Visit www.nmslrhs.org for excellent info on the restoration of #2926.
I suppose the drawings would be available from some ATSF historic society as well. Preserved engines with active restoration programs are also able to provide the necessary details, photos and measurements. Luckily not all got scrapped so you can admire the real thing still.
To go with Tori's COARW, my favourite freeware route, I would like to see J class 4-8-4 and H8 class 2-6-6-6. Drawings of both are available, and there is tons of photos with the Alleghany from the Henry Ford museum or with Russ Rowland's #614.

I'll second all of those and I will have one of everything :)

I can get some drawings for the 2523 from the historical society. Otherwise, pictures will be a plenty. She still has her bell, so I can record that, and her whistle is still mounted, so I can see what I can do about getting some steam behind it from another source.

_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha wrote:Interesting question this is.
Do you want a generic engine fitting a certain timeframe?
Do you want a small engine so as not to take up too much time?
Or do you want an engine fitting a certain route available in TS2013?

I'll stand by my original recommendation to only do engine for routes actually available.

The most desirable is probably the UP FEF 4-8-4, for which complete set of drawings is available. A good model will sell well, no doubt at all.
UP's own #844 is still available in "heavy metal" and tons of photos etc. do exist.

The only proper steam era route is Horseshoe Curve, even though I haven't come across a water column and only saw rudimentary coal docks.
To go with the 'Curve, I suggest an M1A 4-8-2 and I1 2-10-0, M1(A) drawings are available from that site you already know of, but only erecting section and elevenation drawings. No doubt some PRR historic society or website can supply other drawings. AFAIK no engine are in preservation or museum display, but don't nail me on this.

Personally, I would like to see ATSF 2900 4-8-4 and 5011 2-10-4 classes, even though these never ran together over Cajon Pass. I suppose the drawing would be available from some ATSF historic society as well. Preserved engines with active restoration programs are also able to provide the necessary details, photos and measurements.
To go with Tori's COARW, my favourite freeware route, I would like to see J class 4-8-4 and H8 class 2-6-6-6. Drawings of both are available, and there is tons of photos of the Alleghany from the Henry Ford museum.

There's a lot of food for thought there.

To me, the Consolidation looks quite generic, by which I mean that I've seen many 2-8-0 Consolidations, in photos and videos, that look very similar, so I hope that it will fit in somewhere. However, when RSC posted it in PRR livery (which I did at their request), it got some negative comments on facebook precisely because it's not one that that ran on PRR. So I have my doubts about whether anything is truly generic.

A small engine? It's a possibility. Maybe an 0-6-0 because of fewer wheels? But actually, I don't think the number of wheels makes much difference to how long it takes to build it. Even small locos have a mass of detail. What will save some time is being able to reuse items like the Westinghouse Cross Compressor, Pyle National electric Generator and the headlight. Other bits can be modified too, instead of starting from a simple cube or cylinder, to save time.

An engine to fit with an existing route? Well, yes, or a route that's definitely on its way (like Marias Pass). Doing one that doesn't fit with a route creates problems for marketing and advertising. I was tempted to build the AT&N short line route just to have a place to run the Connie!

If I could quit my day job and still pay the rent (and other committments), I'd do this full-time and maybe build two engines at the same time (I believe it's possible to do). But until I retire or they make me redundant, I'll have to settle for one at a time.

I would like to pick one that's going to sell well

BNSFdude wrote:I can get some drawings for the 2523 from the historical society. Otherwise, pictures will be a plenty. She still has her bell, so I can record that, and her whistle is still mounted, so I can see what I can do about getting some steam behind it from another source.

That would be fantastic, I'd obviously pay for them myself, just let me know how to order them. The advantage of the 2523 is that it's right there, and if there's a photo I can't find, or an angle I need, or even a particular measurement that doesn't show up on the drawings (did you know that cab drawings are extremely hard to find?), you could help me out.

I'm keen to make a start on it as soon as the Consolidation is done.

By the way, I did manage to get the Consolidation's whistle to "quill" quite nicely. Now you can sound blasts as long or as short as you like, and almost play tunes with two main notes and gradual pitch changes between the two, by pulling the whistle cord up and down in the cab. I used stereo sound bites from Strasbourg Number 90.

Hmm how about UP #9000 I know where there is a set of blueprints.

Infact, this site has a ton of drawings, blueprints and costs money unfortunately.

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/drawings/by_rr.htm

Edit: I just thought about 4-4-0 American we don't exactly have steam from the 1800s.

bpetit wrote:Hmm how about UP #9000 I know where there is a set of blueprints.

Infact, this site has a ton of drawings, blueprints and costs money unfortunately.

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/drawings/by_rr.htm

That's where I bought the drawings for the Consolidation Unfortunately, the Consolidation was the only one for which they had a nearly complete set of drawings. The other sets are very incomplete.

Also: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mountain/?page=gn

Yea a late 1800's 4-4-0 American and a 2-8-0 Mogul are what we really need next imho
something to really fit Greatnortherner's 19th century cars.

mrennie wrote:I would like to pick one that's going to sell well

This is probably the most important consideration if you want to earn a little money for all of your hard work and study.
Given the few other steam locomotives available in other sims, you'll find all players want the same: Big Boy's, Challenger's, GS4, Cab Forwards, etc. We already have these in TS2013, so one can suppose there is not that much market for yet another of these "standards".

And 100% accurate drawings? Remember, no two steam engines were ever alike, except perhaps the day they left the builders. After any class overhaul the engines were different from before and each other. Essentially, one a few common railroad practices define its steam locomotive, like Pennsylvania's Belpaire firebox and sheet metal plow.

There are already generic USRA style MSTS conversion available from Britkits. They all look very ancient to me, like round WW I, and hardly fit a contemporary route, unless you'd like to model a railway museum.

So to go with your Consolidation, a small Mogul (2-6-0) or Ten Wheeler (4-6-0) would allow you to re-use many of the parts. Likewise, a small Prairie (2-6-2).
Pacific's (4-6-2), Mikado's (2-8-2) and Decapod's (2-10-0) are already a step up in size, modernity and complexity but still allow you to use the same boiler, cab and tender between them.
Superpower Hudson (4-6-4), Berkshire (2-8-4), Northern (4-8-4) and Texas (2-10-4) types grew and changed considerably during their development and lasted well into the early Diesel age.

Many players would probably like to run first generation Diesels together with late 40's, early 50's steam engines. Because of economics, only the best, largest and most modern steam locomotives could compete with the Diesels, hence my suggestion for those ultimate ATSF engines.

Anyway, it is up to you to do the calculations and the hard work of creating. Good luck with any project you might take up after handing over you Consolidation to RSC.
You are British, BTW, making access to US museums somewhat difficult because of costs?

BTW II, there are also Baldwin, ALCo and Lima locomotive works (commercial) archives, which often have original blueprints available for reproduction.

_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha wrote:And 100% accurate drawings? Remember, no two steam engines were ever alike, except perhaps the day they left the builders. After any class overhaul the engines were different from before and each other.

When I started on this Lima Consolidation, of which only five were built (all for the AT&N), I then found a photo of #204, which had its headlight in a different position from the drawings, and a slightly different cowcatcher, which had me puzzled. Then I found a photo of #202, with the headlight in the same place as in the drawings and a cowcatcher different from #204. Plus the tenders have different steps. So yes, even within such a small batch there are detail differences. There are no photos at all of the cab, so the cab I've made is actually a mish-mash of things from various photos, put together as prototypically as I could manage. 100% accuracy is indeed practically impossible.

RSC told me that steamer don't sell as well as the modern stuff, but I like steamers. I'll leave the modern for others to do, even if it pays better.

Indeed, being on this side of the pond (and in Spain) makes it very difficult to get hold of information. I've become quite adept at using Google!

mrennie wrote:RSC told me that steamer don't sell as well as the modern stuff, but I like steamers. I'll leave the modern for others to do, even if it pays better.

Yes, I can believe that, unfortunately. It is just a consequence of Father Time. When you consider steam finished in the 50's mainly in the US and late 60's in the UK, Europe and Australasia, people interested in steam are getting on and not playing computer games. I recently did a photographic steam tour in the US and I was probably one of the youngest there at 47! The younger ones have only grown up with boxes, so they don't really appreciate the intricacies and enjoyment of the power of steam. A generalisation I know. I too would much rather play on a detailed 50 mile route with destination and activity options (local sidings, shunting etc, like the COA) than a 160 mile slog up Donner Pass and now Marias Pass is on the horizon, which is more of the same - notch 8 and go and have a coffee I don't see the enjoyment of sitting in the cab of an HST or whatever screaming up the West Coast Main Line at 150 mph - but to each their own.

Just glad there is somebody putting out quality steam and I for one will be happy to pay for the privilege.





Grant

All anyone has to do is haul the kids to a fan run of one of the great steam locos still running and they will be captivated. These beasts have no equal.