New York Division-Bergen Line

[krellnut]

The bad part is that its caused by changes in track elevation.

Those frogs are definitely not blocked because of a height differential. Height differential looks totally different. Try fixing one of them the way I suggested. See if it works for you.

Here is the same crossover that I fixed the way I described to you. This is just a suggestion for your route. Up to you if you think they need to be fixed.

[minerman146]

Some Pictures of Scene's from this week's work:

24010_screenshots_2015-10-14_00001.jpg

24010_screenshots_2015-10-11_00003.jpg

24010_screenshots_2015-10-11_00005.jpg

[minerman146]

The bad part is that its caused by changes in track elevation.

Those frogs are definitely not blocked because of a height differential. Height differential looks totally different. Try fixing one of them the way I suggested. See if it works for you.

Here is the same crossover that I fixed the way I described to you. This is just a suggestion for your route. Up to you if you think they need to be fixed.

Krellnut, that looks perfect - I take suggestions and I do them - the day I stop paying attention is the day I lose good advice. Your image showed the lat and long, so I was able to find the location right under the NJTurnpike at Croxton. Many thanks. Minerman

EDIT: I had to put the image on a 23 image monitor instead of a 14 inch laptop - I see it. Its the frog, the trough is missing for the wheel flange to go through.
Oh how many of these do I have - I have never seen this before. I will have to check each switch tonight after work. Seriously thank you - those frogs do not look good.
RESOLUTION: CORRECTED - what a PITA - 90 minutes to correct. Cause was the crossover tool used on slightly unparallel track. I was not able to fix it like you did Krellnut.
RESOLUTION: Now I can fix blocked frogs like Krellnut. After finding the center of the cross over and cutting, the track at the end of one cross over will be invisible. Delete that one. Click Undo. Click weld. And Krellnut was right, I corrected 8 bad cross overs, I will now check the rest of the line.

[minerman146]

We just got a you tube submission today of the Bergen Line in action. This was done today so it has the very latest content. The film starts off at Secaucus Junction and makes it just shy of Suffern before its uh...big finish.

https://youtu.be/ZurL9JuhrCQ
Posted here with permission from Franky83

He has a good amount of AI traffic in his video as well. This is good stuff

[minerman146]

I don't usually put up a pure Work In Progress Screen, but this is for illustrating a question. Let me preface the question by pointing out the obvious, in that I cannot build everything. A square mile takes about a month to do. There are 3 yards in Jersey City and Kearny. From North to South we have North Bergen yard (CSX) , Croxton (NS - Me!) and South Kearny Yard (CSX). https://goo.gl/maps/bxH9UcMtvVq I just laid track to the edge of North Bergen. I have dense scenery between North Bergen and Kearny that I have to put in as I do the final 2 miles to Hobken. Would it be of any use from a scenaro perspective to put the Yards for North Bergen and Kearny in? I plan for Portals and North Bergen and as far as Kearny is concerned I would run track to just over the Hackensack River and make that distant. I only get to build this once - this is your chance to put in your 2 cents. You must have the New York Division-Bergen Line already or plan to do so to comment. Think freight!

24010_screenshots_2015-10-18_00003.jpg

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I don't usually put up a pure Work In Progress Screen, but this is for illustrating a question. Let me preface the question by pointing out the obvious, in that I cannot build everything. A square mile takes about a month to do. There are 3 yards in Jersey City and Kearny. From North to South we have North Bergen yard (CSX) , Croxton (NS - Me!) and South Kearny Yard (CSX). https://goo.gl/maps/bxH9UcMtvVq I just laid track to the edge of North Bergen. I have dense scenery between North Bergen and Kearny that I have to put in as I do the final 2 miles to Hobken. Would it be of any use from a scenaro perspective to put the Yards for North Bergen and Kearny in? I plan for Portals and North Bergen and as far as Kearny is concerned I would run track to just over the Hackensack River and make that distant. I only get to build this once - this is your chance to put in your 2 cents. You must have the New York Division-Bergen Line already or plan to do so to comment. Think freight!

24010_screenshots_2015-10-18_00003.jpg

What is their value from a player's perspective? Do they allow for active immersive scenario activities or are they 'just there' for freight car storage or even have to remain empty because that number of cars sitting there kills the frame rate? So far you have made excellent use of the purposely limited assets, but adding large yards in densely built-up areas might be too much for the player with less than high end PC's.

What is your aim, realistic passenger service or freight service? One cannot please each and every player and your own route ideas and conceptions might fall on deaf ears when actual scenarios come into play?

So far, I have played a few QD scenarios but am undecided as to what I really want from this route besides admiring it.

You cannot leave those yards as rudimentary portals for now and first finish up to Hoboken to at least achieve that goal and work backwards from there?

[minerman146]

What is their value from a player's perspective? Do they allow for active immersive scenario activities or are they 'just there' for freight car storage or even have to remain empty because that number of cars sitting there kills the frame rate? So far you have made excellent use of the purposely limited assets, but adding large yards in densely built-up areas might be too much for the player with less than high end PC's.

What is your aim, realistic passenger service or freight service? One cannot please each and every player and your own route ideas and conceptions might fall on deaf ears when actual scenarios come into play?

So far, I have played a few QD scenarios but am undecided as to what I really want from this route besides admiring it.

You cannot leave those yards as rudimentary portals for now and first finish up to Hoboken to at least achieve that goal and work backwards from there?

Edwin,

"purposely limited assets" - You have that right, and it has worked out much better than I expected because of forced creativity. The Croxton/Jersey City/Hoboken area is a huge technical challenge. I am pushing 3800 objects per kilometer, and it hurts FPS. It is also highly immersive, which was my goal - you believe you are in North New Jersey. Croxton Intermodal fits nicely in a single grid and currently has 185 assets in it. This will be filled with trailers and is both a point of origin and destination for the player. Switching is in the freight yard to the West. All local traffic to the west originates at the freight yard and west bound named freight originates here and its a termination point for east bound.

North Bergen Yard is not interchange but Kearny is. NS freight will swing from Kearny through to Croxton to be classified. That may be some opportunity. There is potential for AI on the CSX line form North Bergen to Kearny. This can occur while the player builds or breaks down intermodal consists. The only traffic for CSX is limited to transfers between its two yards. That may be worth a scenario or 2. I have to decorate past the NEC tunnel to PA Station as NEC it will be drivable, I will be filling in with scenery. So is this something that you more experienced guys can use? I am looking for your ideas to justify full scenery and construction.

My aim? To build a Norfolk-Southern Local and interchange line that coexists with New Jersey Transit's Bergen County Line. To allow for passenger traffic and intense local freight, interchange runs with the occasional through freight with the most intense and believable scenery ever executed for Train Simulator.

My personal aim - to use this iteration of the Bergen line as a base to build Erie-Lackawanna's entire New York Division circa 1974. That's my goal.

24010_screenshots_2015-10-18_00005.jpg

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Edwin,

"purposely limited assets" - You have that right, and it has worked out much better than I expected because of forced creativity. The Croxton/Jersey City/Hoboken area is a huge technical challenge. I am pushing 3800 objects per kilometer, and it hurts FPS. It is also highly immersive, which was my goal - you believe you are in North New Jersey. Croxton Intermodal fits nicely in a single grid and currently has 185 assets in it. This will be filled with trailers and is both a point of origin and destination for the player. Switching is in the freight yard to the West. All local traffic to the west originates at the freight yard and west bound named freight originates here and its a termination point for east bound.

North Bergen Yard is not interchange but Kearny is. NS freight will swing from Kearny through to Croxton to be classified. That may be some opportunity. There is potential for AI on the CSX line form North Bergen to Kearny. This can occur while the player builds or breaks down intermodal consists. The only traffic for CSX is limited to transfers between its two yards. That may be worth a scenario or 2. I have to decorate past the NEC tunnel to PA Station as NEC it will be drivable, I will be filling in with scenery. So is this something that you more experienced guys can use? I am looking for your ideas to justify full scenery and construction.

My aim? To build a Norfolk-Southern Local and interchange line that coexists with New Jersey Transit's Bergen County Line. To allow for passenger traffic and intense local freight, interchange runs with the occasional through freight with the most intense and believable scenery ever executed for Train Simulator.

My personal aim - to use this iteration of the Bergen line as a base to build Erie-Lackawanna's entire New York Division circa 1974. That's my goal.

24010_screenshots_2015-10-18_00005.jpg

So far it is looking good, very good indeed even. The real test comes when the Steam workshop route's track work is declared complete and players are invited to start writing scenarios for it and jump on the route in earnest. Even then, work on scenery can still continue, improving or replacing certain assets, etc.
Apart from a few basic QD's to explore the route, do you really want to write lots of scenarios yourself? Steam workshop limits you to available DLC and no everybody wants to hunt for this or that appropriate repaint.
Expect reports of bugs and errors preventing this or that action in the scenarios under construction by players of all levels and interests, and be prepared to make adjustments here and there to iron out any overseen kinks. Don't expect much gratitude either, but try to remain humble and gracious under pressure when discussions get heated. You are so immersed in your route that it sometimes blinds your judgement of what other players might perceive of it.
Part of the fun is in the creating, and best try to keep it that way. Try to delegate signalling, scenario writing, locomotive repainting etc. to some willing and capable volunteers you can trust. It eases some of your workload because writing scenarios for complicated routes with lots of stations, platforms, sidings, interchanges etc, is not easy with the limitations of DTG's signalling and dispatching engine.

Many a promising route died an untimely death because their creators got worn out, frustrated over constant crashes and EULA changes. There are lots of abandoned routes to be found here and elsewhere.

[minerman146]

Edwin "Kanawha",
You give sound advice. I have observed the same. So many promising routes and then they lose steam. This is the end run for me. I don't know if, and frankly, I don't think I should, keep going for another 20 months. So this is it, about 50 miles of mainline, the entire Bergen County line and parts of the Port Jervis, Pascack and Main Line. Not to shabby. This was a 15 mile test route of my HO scale layout of Suffern, NY. I wanted to see what was possible in Train Simulator. Frankly, I am amazed at what this engine can do. I have worked in sections, first the terrain, then track and roads, and finally scenery. That has kept me sane. I have read in these forums and others, what not to do. I avoided the "flat track", "laying all the track first" and the "promising more than can be humanly delivered" problems. What the Bergen lacks in heavy Amtrak - NE Corridor traffic, it makes up for in "take your time and enjoy the scenery" commuter railroad and switching locals. This line has over 50 individual customers, they are all named.

I posted this thread because most of you a serious railroad enthusiasts. If I can keep your interest, I have done my job. The tips, advice and encouragement here on Railworks America is bar none the finest out there. You advice is read, digested and them executed. You are helping me build this.

I have had issues over the past 20 months, scenario writers, bad signals, bad track and fouled QDs'. Those obstacles were over come and the problems corrected. Recently, corrected a blocked frog issue that was discovered by one of you and posted on this very thread. I am grateful.

The Bergen Line was planned in advance to account for the limitation of the Steam Workshop. It may not look like it, but there is not one lick of custom asset anywhere. I kept it to 2 primary DLC all this time and then broke my own rule when the opportunity of Hoboken came in the form of the New Jersey Shoreline. I have guilt for burdening my subscribers with this ... its $90 of DLC for this thing. If you have $90, I must make it worth your while. Scenarios and repaints would be so much fun. Route building takes up the free time I have and I am fine with that. When complete, I will try my hand at a few and post the 2 I have been working on.

I would say that no one would build this line - someone started on MSTS about 7 years ago and ran out of gas at 18 months. I have 20 in and I am committed like a mad man to get it done. I have the miles and the scenery to prove my commitment. DTG wouldn't build this and I have never read anyone talking about doing the New York Division here. Though there are a couple of EL fans here who I want to get to know better, still no other route development for the Erie or this line. Its just me. I want as many as possible to see and use this line. One of my concerns was lack of interest in the line. I have watched Model Railroader for 40 years and if its not SP, UP, Santa Fe or Clinchfield - no one cares. This work is ERIE mainline and I will put it back on the map.

Edwin - I will hold here and do a rant later. Thank you so much for taking your time to ride the Bergen and allow me to be the beneficiary of your advice.

Regards,

Adam

[BillS]

Not hard to tell that you're a huge EL fan. Someone that appears to know quite a bit about the "ERIE" is Mike Spinelli. Known as "Spin", he runs the OVSRails forum. He is located in north central Ohio, so I'm not sure if that would add anything to the New York Division of the Erie Lackawanna.

Don't know if you've talked with him before, but might be helpful after your rest from this AMAZING Route that you are creating.

BillS

[minerman146]

Not hard to tell that you're a huge EL fan. Someone that appears to know quite a bit about the "ERIE" is Mike Spinelli. Known as "Spin", he runs the OVSRails forum. He is located in north central Ohio, so I'm not sure if that would add anything to the New York Division of the Erie Lackawanna.

Don't know if you've talked with him before, but might be helpful after your rest from this AMAZING Route that you are creating.

BillS

It appears I have come completely out of the of the closet as an EL fan. So much for my ability to be subtle. Thank you for the lead to OVSRails, I just registered there. I swear I have heard of Mike Spinelli before.

I never was sure if a full blown EL route would have taken off, some day, I will find out. Now, I know I can build it. In the meantime, we have plenty of NJT and NS to work with on the Bergen. I am getting advice about how to work in the CSX North Bergen Yard and South Kearny Yard to the route. I am still soliciting comments on that subject.

Regards - Minerman

[minerman146]

THIS is what needs to be run on the New York Division:
(Fresh Pic of NS 1700! )

EL 1701.jpg

[BillS]

YES!!! Very nice pix!

[minerman146]

Work in progress - Update. Croxton Intermodal is a great, flat, yawning void. But were going to make up for that in detail.
The track names are interesting as they relate to the containers and the trailers that haul them. We have Pad A, Pad B, C,D and E.

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24010_screenshots_2015-10-20_00003.jpg

24010_screenshots_2015-10-20_00007.jpg

[BillS]

Really nice, Adam.