New York Division-Bergen Line

[minerman146]

Route Update Number 132
New York Division-Bergen Line 9.7.8: Southfields

New Scenery from Southfields to Arden, NY. Additional track infrastructure work to improve communication of signal-scripts in game. Correct QD's in Hoboken

[minerman146]

I know its just the trees... but I am on to something here....
Look at that rock face!

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One more before bed.
Finally ... Arden, NY

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[minerman146]

I appreciate the help and support here on RWA. I say that because whenever I notice the improvement in content, well, I notice. Thank you, I prefer it this way.

On to todays work. Arden! Its looking strong and that means the topo to Woodbury will get fixed. This is another town area that will get the time and the love to make it better. Im looking foward to the Route 87-17 intetchange,Toll plaza and shopping at Woodbury Common. Side note I worked on the culvert and drainage system there back in 1986. Speaking of construcltion wear on the site, i wore Dickies. If you never heard of them, you don't know Dickies!

[goddrauG]

So if the Bergen connects to the NEC, and then the New Haven-Boston section on the workshop... Dang. We have about 100-something miles of track for someone to make before we can bring a car from the Bergen to the home of Lobster!

[minerman146]

So if the Bergen connects to the NEC, and then the New Haven-Boston section on the workshop... Dang. We have about 100-something miles of track for someone to make before we can bring a car from the Bergen to the home of Lobster!

The Bergen cant get to the New Haven-Boston Route at the moment. However, if I go to Maybrook, NY before 1974 I can via the PC. I know a guy and we talk about putting this line in to join our two routes. Very Cool Idea.

As you all know, the Poughkeepsie Bridge is a perfect metaphor for what Penn Central did before they collapsed - the took out all the other railroads around them by burning down the BRIDGE traffic. So, in 1974 the NYNH&H/PC line mysteriously caught fire and declared unsafe. That was the end of the line to Maybrook, NY.

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[mmss1]

The Bergen cant get to the New Haven-Boston Route at the moment. However, if I go to Maybrook, NY before 1974 I can via the PC. I know a guy and we talk about putting this line in to join our two routes. Very Cool Idea.

Yes it is a cool idea, but myself would be so-so on it.

Main reason is because the Erie-Lackawanna wasn't really a factor in Maybrook anymore after the NYNH&H - PC merger in 1969. The PC's management didn't want to interchange with the EL at Maybrook because the EL competed with lines the PC had that could handle the traffic. By 1971 the EL mostly used Maybrook for crew changes.

And remember (This is the part I hate), After Maybrook closed & even before (Like the joint CNJ-EL trains using the CNJ's High Bridge Branch & the EL's ex-DLW Cut-Off starting in 1972), most of the EL freight traffic use the Cut-Off & DLW side, with not much using the "Erie" side.. UGHH !

[minerman146]

Mmss1, You have it exactly correct. I am guilty of having selective memory. As I recall, traffic was down on the divison and after 72, it was going though Scranton. Even trains for Ford was going through there. I vaugely remember the traffic drip off, and remember the pickup after Agnes.But 74 is very vivid particularly in the fall with Black PC engined rolling through, even the EL equiment looked filthy and worn.

By 74 there was just about nothing going on in Maybrook. Though locals were still active on the Newbugh and Pine Bush Branches.

I wasnt a big fan either, Dad was working out of Scranton for a long while.
I better be careful with my rose colored glasses on the future!

Keep it coming!

So what the heck do I do with this route?

[minerman146]

HOT FIX and ROUTE UPDATE:

Route Update Number 133
New York Division-Bergen Line 9.7.8a: Arden

New Scenery from Southfields to Arden, NY. Additional track infrastructure work to improve communication of signal-scripts in game. Hotfix: Correct QD's in Hoboken and Suffern.

Were in Arden, NY now. Do take a peek at the itty-bity old station at Arden. The station was built for E.H. Harriman, President of the Union Pacific. His estate is just East of the Station. Yes they built the road for him too.

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View of the Station on the Bergen:

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Arden with Train

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The Real Arden Station:

arden1.jpg

[mmss1]

Mmss1, You have it exactly correct. I am guilty of having selective memory. As I recall, traffic was down on the divison and after 72, it was going though Scranton. Even trains for Ford was going through there. I vaugely remember the traffic drip off, and remember the pickup after Agnes.But 74 is very vivid particularly in the fall with Black PC engined rolling through, even the EL equiment looked filthy and worn.

By 74 there was just about nothing going on in Maybrook. Though locals were still active on the Newbugh and Pine Bush Branches.

I wasnt a big fan either, Dad was working out of Scranton for a long while.
I better be careful with my rose colored glasses on the future!

Keep it coming!

So what the heck do I do with this route?

Well it wasn't all a Maybrook problem, you can chalk a lot of the problems with I use to call "The Moonshower Effect" because of the Moonshower Plan. Making a track configure @ Croxton so Suffern trains can access the Boonton Line for directs into Scranton. Then capacity constraints on the cutoff between PA & Port Morris with only 1 controlled passing siding at Greendell along with other constraints in PA. Clearances were a big problem on the DLW side to with the DLW being "Nice & Narrow & Low" & the Erie side being "Nice & High & Wide". When Nicholson Tunnel has the partial collapse when working on the clearance (I think it was 1974 if I remember), We were happy because it re-routed traffic on the Erie side again for over 3 months ( Nothing like watching NY-100 coming thru Black Rock Cut in my opinion ). Remember a lot of this was because PA didn't have the "Full Crew Law" anymore and NY did. The reconfigure wound up costing the EL more that if it paid for full crews.

Not to mention the "NIMBY's" with freight going over the Greenwood Lake Branch which was a low grade line with the transverse to the Boonton Line. It really hit the fan as I am sure you remember in Oct., 1973 when 11 cars derailed in Bloomfield with one car crashing into a house. As you know, there is a lot more that could be brought up & I am sure you know much more than me with your dad and all. But the next big nail in the coffin after Dereco was the oil embargo in 1974. Now using the DLW's ROWs through PA near Scranton with the steeper grades cost the EL a lot more in fuel.

I feel if William White didn't die in 1967, the EL might have survived longer. Don't know if would have survived longer past the mid 1980's when mega-mergers with roads show they can work correctly after the Penn Central debacle. But I do think it would have been an island in a sea of Conrail blue longer than it was. But it is nice talkin' about the EL again.

BTW............... Arden looks AWESOME !!!!!

[minerman146]

MSS11 - I will get to your post tomorrow (NY 100 through Black Rock Cut?) Your killen me over here!

[minerman146]

NSTrains - this one is for you. Thanks for the pictures they are a huge help.
Clocked in just over 3 hours for the fixes. This bad boy was a pain. Now you guys do realize I reverse engineered DTGs Hoboken then... hmmm looking for the right word here... they read... ah I got it, "enhanced' the daylights out of it. That is the most epic track laying job evah. But now I break out in a cold sweat when I see double-slips. The buffers you showed me poking through my babies drove me to drink .. uh more.

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That's all for tonight .. me tired.
Black Rock Cut... heh, Next he will want old Number 2 put in up in Mill Rift.

[NStrains]

All those double slips and double crossovers look so hypnotizing when leaving Hoboken! Glad you were able to get those fixed up relatively easy.

[harryadkins]

Do the Norfolk Southern locals operate out of Croxton Yard? It looks to be entirely intermodal.

[minerman146]

Do the Norfolk Southern locals operate out of Croxton Yard? It looks to be entirely intermodal.

Croxton is 2 yards running East to West. The Easternmost yard is for Intermodal loading and unloading. The Western Yard handles intermodal storage and is the base of all the local trains that run up and down the Bergern/Main line. In addition it supplies Suffern and Campbell Hall. My readings indicate it receives on mixed freight a day from Allentown PA. It would be roughly. 90% intermodal 10% freight. HO-7 I believe is the train that works Croxton

If anyone else would like like to chime in on NS Operations on the Bergen from Croxton please do so.

[minerman146]

I think it might be appropriate to me to explain my lack of knowledge on NS and current operations. Harry's question got me to doing some research and well all I could find was H07 out of Croxton. Some more research on Railroad.net drew me to a thread of Southern Tier - East of Binghamton. That was not a pleasant experience. My conclusion - at some point the NYS&W will get absorbed or the ever decreasing traffic will simply be gone. At that point, what I call the Delaware Division, will have its rail scrapped. And then what I know from memory will physically be gone. For me this comes as a surprise of course. Even thought I have done some reading and read the paper back in the 80s about what what going on with Conrail and all that. What I find amusing in all this, and I want to share with you, is my frame of reference. My physical knowledge of trains, my first hand experiences ended in 1978. Sure, I was still a bit interested in railroading - but that's nothing when you get to ride them, hang out at division in Hoboken and Port Jervis and generally be a part of an operating railroad. My knowledge just stops in 1978, I don't know a train from experience without a caboose! Cab controls both annoy and confuse me greatly! Comfort Cabs? A comfort cab is one that toilet works, the windows open in summer and stay fully closed in winter and (maybe the heat works).

I remember once again when and why my interest stopped in Southern Tier and my beloved New York Division - because I knew it was gone.

This might explain my split personality with the Bergen! But you folks, who have this route, are the direct beneficiaries of a 40 year old memory - you guys sense that ?

I swear this crazy work on this route is like some kind of quest or something on my part.